Email from Kevin at Underwood

[sqlbullet]

Same is true for my Glock 29.

I replaced the backplate on my Glock with another factory one because I didn't like the scratch on the one that it came with.  And I replaced the +2 baseplates for factory since I wanted more concealment.

My Glock is more factory now than when I got it.  And I will run anything you want in it.

[RRMan03]

And I have now proved my point. It is your gun do what you want to it to have the fun you want to get out of it. Run it anyway you want that you can afford and be happy. If all were meant to be the same then they would come that way in the box. Man I love getting everybody talking. You can get so much good insite into your on self and weapon.

[Intercooler]

My funny post for the night.


Nobody is twisting your to shoot ammo!

[REDLINE]

But my question still is by changing the barrel if the ammo is still over pressure do you solve your problem?

Most aftermarket barrels (Bar-Sto, KKM, Storm Lake) for Glock 10mm pistols will solve the issue all together from everything I've gathered so far. 

Personally I still wouldn't trust the newest Lone Wolf barrels though, as they've really opened up the chamber mouths from what they used to be, and much more so over the other three I mentioned above.

IMO with Bar-Sto, KKM, and Storm Lake, you're good for at least 40,000 PSI.  I for one wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to shoot any Underwood 10mm load through my G20 with my Storm Lake barrel installed.


On a side note, and for general FYI, SAAMI not only creates and has specs for cartridge average and max pressure levels, but also for PROOF CARTRIDGE pressure levels for gun manufacturers to design their guns around to be considered safe, even if a hot load enters the mix on rare occasion because of ammo manufacturer mishaps and what not.  Those proof pressures by SAAMI for 10mm Auto chambered platforms are:

Minimum Average = 50,500 PSI
Maximum Average = 54,000 PSI
Maximum Extreme Variation = 9800 PSI

Is it just me, or do others agree there is no question at least some gun manufactuers are skipping that testing?

[REDLINE]

IC,

None of us would care about an aftermarket barrel for safeties sake in any platform but the Delta Elite if Kevin Underwood would stop allowing 10mm rounds over 37,500 PSI to leave his facility and enter the public sector.  It's because of his poor manufactuering process and/or Quality Control that there becomes a reason to go with an aftermarket barrel in the first place.  That is not a fault of the Glock barrel design.

And to anyone who wants to suggest there may not be an issue with some 10mm Underwood ammo being overpressure then you can futilely attemp explaining how UW gets a 200gr XTP from 10mm Auto to hit 1300 FPS from less than 5" of barrel without being beyond 37,500 PSI.  NOT POSSIBLE.

[The_Shadow]

Yet another reason that I thing the brass casing is an issue!  I have loaded many loads using just about every make brass new and used to levels that equal Underwood's loadings.  While I have seen bulged cases I have only see one very minor "SMILE" and it may have been "SMILED" prior to me handloading it and shooting, I could have missed it because it was so slight.

I have seen more case expansion from Star Line Brass using the same loads in other makes as shot in the same barrels...

[sqlbullet]

If I ever get out of remodel mode with any spare money left I may have to buy some Winchester brass and do some testing.

[REDLINE]

Yet another reason that I thing the brass casing is an issue!  I have loaded many loads using just about every make brass new and used to levels that equal Underwood's loadings.  While I have seen bulged cases I have only see one very minor "SMILE" and it may have been "SMILED" prior to me handloading it and shooting, I could have missed it because it was so slight.

I have seen more case expansion from Star Line Brass using the same loads in other makes as shot in the same barrels...

With the stock G29 barrel, and not your Storm Lake barrel?

Did you load some up with 800-X under a 200gr XTP that was hitting 1300 FPS from less than 5" of barrel?

Honestly, I'm having a hard time buying into there being any issue with the Starline brand of brass.  Not saying it aint so, but I'm having doubts.

[REDLINE]

If I ever get out of remodel mode with any spare money left I may have to buy some Winchester brass and do some testing.

Maybe it would be worth looking into the nickel plated stuff too, along with the plain brass counterparts.

[The_Shadow]

I had a some Hornady 200XTP's above the 1250fps mark with the stock G-29 barrel with no smiles using LongShot and 800X.

[DM1906]

Also remember, firearms manufacturers recommend NO reloaded, or "inexpertly" manufactured or filled ammunition be used, and disclaim any result of using this ammo.  They all recommend new, current production, common, commercially manufactured ammunition be used.  They don't bury this in fine print.  I'm certain they have little or no interest in your ability to reuse the cases once fired and leave the firearm.  A bulged, "smiled", or even a split case is of little concern as long as the round fires normally otherwise.  Underwood, for example, does not fall into the category of acceptable , also evidenced by the volume vs. complaints.  The major brands produce millions of times the volume, yet have fewer complaints of fitment or failures.  You can be certain that every load developed by the major ammunition manufacturers have been properly tested.  The same can't be said of the boutique suppliers, with no evidence of actual testing, beyond stated claims.  Either they aren't testing, or have tested and don't want you to know their results.  If they have been tested, and found to be within acceptable specs, it would be simple to include test results with the product description (as is found with the major manufacturers).  Merely saying, "within SAAMI specs" means nothing.  It's a guess, or a lie, and nothing more.

[sqlbullet]

DM1906 has a good point.

If one of the big boys tests 1 round in 100000, or .001%, they are still testing thousands of rounds a year.  For the boutique loader than may be only 5 or 6 rounds in a given caliber.

I don't know how many rounds Underwood, or Double Tap tests in a year, but I would not be surprised to find that Federal or Remington tests more rounds in a year than a boutique loader sells.

[RMM]

Instead of trying to offer new bullet weights/configurations an easier solution would be to offer the slightly downloaded "delta elite" loads in all of the bullet weights along with the "full power" current loads.  He already does this with the 180gr 10mm load and 9mm loads (+p, +p+).  The same components can be utilized so theoretically except for the initial testing (which was probably already done when the initial loads were worked up) there would be virtually no increased cost involved.

[Intercooler]

Call him up and suggest it. Only way it will happen is if enough people want it.

[REDLINE]

I ask Kevin about his hottest loads and the support required by the barrel for the G20 and G29. He said...the simple fact was that the factory Glock barrel had more than enough support around the case on their ammo.

That being said what are the reasons for Ka Booms.  ...any manafacture that exceeds pressure limits is asking for it.

Some great food for thought has been brought up in this thread.  I guess at this point I don't know what else could be said.  We have some facts and theories, good baselines and questionable reasoning/practices. 

In what I'm seeing it doesn't appear Kevin Underwood is too concerned about his ammo to change a thing.  There's a concensus by some that nothing needs to change.  I would submit some facts suggest otherwise.  At any rate time will tell if further issues arise with Underwood 10mm ammo.  In the mean time those interested in shooting factory ammo will have to decide from crossroads which path to take, shoot Underwood 10mm ammo or not. 

I for one hope Kevin is working behind the scenes to see to it that discrepancies with his 10mm ammo disappear.  What leaves me uncomfortable with his 10mm ammo is he doesn't seem to acknowledge there is or has been any issue at all.  Maybe I missed something.  In the mean time (which has a chance of never ending) I know for myself that if I do shoot any of his ammo in my Glocks, it won't be with the stock barrels.  Of course all others will make that decision for themselves.

That's my 2 cents of a take away from this conversation.