Just going down the 9x25 rabbit hole

[challer61]

What I found is that right now, Bar-sto will make a 9x25mm only for Glocks. I was told my P220/10 and 1911 don't feed reliably. KKM tells me they won't make 9x25mm at all. Dillon dies are in stock but expensive. It seems like Glock is not only the only double stack 10mm I can get my hands on, but also the only 9x25 to build loads. Is there something I am missing?

[DoubleA]

There are a few NOS unmarked G20 Lone Wolf barrels floating around on GunBroker & eBay currently. $135 from Spectre Supply. 5.457 in and they are ported. I have no doubt that the Bar-sto is a nicer barrel but they are 2x the price, have significant lead times currently and both of their offerings have to be hand fit to your gun. Either one should serve you well just always good to have options!

[sqlbullet]

Don't waste money on the dillon dies.  Get some 357 Sig dies.  I have the dillon dies and only use the seat/crimp dies, and could use the 357 sig dies for that.  I use the 357 Sig dies to form brass, size the mouth and expand/flare.

[challer61]

Appreciate the feedback. If I here you correctly, use my existing 10mm for overall sizing and the 357 Sig for case forming, neck opening and crimping?

[sqlbullet]

Yep.  The dillon dies size the neck to far down, so you end up needing a separate expander anyway.  The rest of the ops except sizing the base are the same as a 357 Sig, just with the die set about .250" higher.

If you load 357 Sig, you could probably just find a washer the right height and keep all your settings the same.  Just put the washer between the die lock ring and press for 9X25.

[The_Shadow]

Why are the Dillon dies expensive?  They have dual carbide sizing sections (bottom section of the 10mm and upper for the 9mm) at for the case forming operation.

Well I can say that there is a distinct difference in the shoulder angles of 357Sig and 9x25 Dillon.  I use the 9x25 Dillon die set for the 9x25 and setting that die correctly is what keeps the headspacing correct for the chamber. 
If the neck is pushed too far down, (I like flush to my chamber hood as seated 0.000" but not more than 0.002" below flush)
The excessive case working and firing can lead to splits and neck separation when firing them.  The other is that the reach of the firing pin or strike where you might get a light hit to the primer.

I use my RCBS 9mm neck expander, because it is longer and does a great job to maintain neck straightness and even a little flare to accept cast bullets.

That being said I started with a Bar-Sto barrel for the 9x25 that Mike Mcnett had commissioned from Bar Sto to convert my S&W1006.  This barrel required fitting to the slide and frame and then it needed to be final reamed for proper head spacing...


Bar-Sto 40S&W and 9x25 Conversion for the 1006 and the factory barrel


I also have two Lone Wolf 9x25 barrels one stock length for the G-29 and a 6" for the G-20.  The chambers on these barrels are cut almost as tight as a case check gauge.  They both shoot very well but the shorter 3.78" barrel doesn't develop the velocity that is achievable from the 5" or 6" barrels.




I have used bullets of 0.355" / 0.356" and 0.357"  My cast bullets are sided at 0.3565"

[DoubleA]

I too use the Dillon dies despite their flaws. The shoulder angle is correct. The neck tension and flare the sizing operation adds I don?t like at all. Those issues are easily corrected with additional operations. I wish Dillon would make their sizing dies differently. All I can think is that it works out ok with their press which has a powder thru expanding unit. Never tried it. While I do have a 650 unit, this isn?t a cartridge I ever plan to size or load on that platform. There is a seller on eBay that has all three of these Dillon 9x25 dies available individually if anyone is looking for less than the full 3 die set.  The seat and crimps were like $36 each. Size die $145.

[gnappi]

Yep.  The dillon dies size the neck to far down, so you end up needing a separate expander anyway.  The rest of the ops except sizing the base are the same as a 357 Sig, just with the die set about .250" higher.

If you load 357 Sig, you could probably just find a washer the right height and keep all your settings the same.  Just put the washer between the die lock ring and press for 9X25.

I agree 100%. I called Dillon and got an RMA for mine which was unusable. They sent it back 100% correct in less than 2 weeks.
Unfortunately even with the carbide (they still recommend lubing the cases I read) it takes so much effort to form cases, I just left the Lee small base 10mm size die at station 1 and put the Dillon die at Station 2 for the neck size. The only benefit I see is that the shoulder is correct the first time which may save a very few cases from neck splits during fire forming (my losses were 3% on well used brass with the Sig die) but I lose so few and I have so much 10mm brass a few out of a hundred is a small loss. I haven't shot them yet but do not expect issues.

BTW, I use a 10mm case gauge to check the rim, and case sides and the 9x25 barrel as a plunk. They all come out great.

SQL, you may want to give Dillon a call and see about sending your size die back, and thanks for your insightful help getting me started.

[DoubleA]

Yep.  The dillon dies size the neck to far down, so you end up needing a separate expander anyway.  The rest of the ops except sizing the base are the same as a 357 Sig, just with the die set about .250" higher.

If you load 357 Sig, you could probably just find a washer the right height and keep all your settings the same.  Just put the washer between the die lock ring and press for 9X25.

I agree 100%. I called Dillon and got an RMA for mine which was unusable. They sent it back 100% correct in less than 2 weeks.
Unfortunately even with the carbide (they still recommend lubing the cases I read) it takes so much effort to form cases, I just left the Lee small base 10mm size die at station 1 and put the Dillon die at Station 2 for the neck size. The only benefit I see is that the shoulder is correct the first time which may save a very few cases from neck splits during fire forming (my losses were 3% on well used brass with the Sig die) but I lose so few and I have so much 10mm brass a few out of a hundred is a small loss. I haven't shot them yet but do not expect issues.

BTW, I use a 10mm case gauge to check the rim, and case sides and the 9x25 barrel as a plunk. They all come out great.

SQL, you may want to give Dillon a call and see about sending your size die back, and thanks for your insightful help getting me started.

Do you know how they fixed this? Did they remove material on the die to get closer to an acceptable finished diameter? What do the case necks measure ID and OD now?

Thanks!

[gnappi]

No idea, they did not specify in the return work order but truthfully it came back so quick I'm pretty certain they swapped the die out.

[Maz2331]

I am kind of a "noob" in the 9x25 community, though I have been a 10mm handloader for around 20+ years.  My original plan was to make my own dies with my mini lathe, but I scored a set of the Dillons and skipped that work.  Step one was making a carbide 12mm rod in to a 9x25 case image at 0.005 inches smaller diameter by using a diamond grinding bit in a Dremel mounted to the lathe tool post.  Step 2 is grinding grooves and shaping and sharpening it in to a reamer. 

Needless to say, making carbide tools at home isn't for the faint of heart.  But it can be done...

I am considering opening up the neck of my factory Dillon 9x25 dies on the lathe a little, as the neck does get overly squeezed. 

And hey, if I fail, I still have that carbide rod that I started turn-grinding that has a 1.5 inch section ground down to 11.3mm...  Getting there only tore up two diamond bits...

[DoubleA]

Sounds like a fun project but I would just use your barrel as a gauge.

[The_Shadow]

Maz2331, I have been using the Dillon Dies for the 9x25 Dillon without any issues sizing 10mm cases to 9x25 or resizing 9x25 cases (NO LUBE NECESSARY EITHER), I do use the RCBS 9mm Expander plug to open the necks to proper fitting and bullet tension.  This keeps the necks straight as well and I can even flare the case mouth for using cast bullets to prevent shaving the lead alloy when seating.





The Dillon 9x25 sizer die is said to have a carbide sizer section for the 9mm sizing area, so that will be very hard material to work on, and why take the chance to ruin such an expensive die.

[Maz2331]

Thanks The_Shadow for your advice.  I left my Dillon dies stock, and instead made a push-through sizer die on the lathe that sizes case body and even head down to new round specs.  That fixed a LOT of my case forming issues.  My process became to first size and decap in a 10mm carbide sizing die, then the push-through mounted in my press I use for 50 BMG (No lube needed!), then size in the 9x25 sizer, expand and prime, charge, seat, then crimp.  Getting that area around the case head to resize was key to me, and the push-through die did the job.

[The_Shadow]

Glad you got things sorted out with the sizing of the case head area of you 9x25 brass.

I always use the LEE 10mm FCD with the guts removed as my pass through sized for 10mm /40S&W /357 Sig and yes 9x25Dillon before normal sizing and depriming.