Newbie asking about 10mm vs bears

[Mouachan]

Hello y'all I'm Chan and I just bought a Glock 20 as a bear defense gun.

I read through 2 older posts about this. Not sure if there was more but that's all I could find in the search and they were pretty old

Obviously bigger means better but in my case I probably will never run into a grizzly. Regardless of that fact it doesn't mean that I realistically never run into a grizzly cause who knows what could happen, I live in Minnesota and I do a lot of camping and hunting all over and I plan to do more.a  Also I plan to do a lot more hiking deep woods no vehicles and easy way out kind of deal.  So most of those times besides hunting I wont have a secondary nor will I really be able to carry a large big bore pistol rifle or shotgun. Also after shooting the 10 I probably could get much more shots on target in a less amount of time than any larger hand Canon (my hands are small I'm also a fairly small dude). I plan to run a few different sim drills of a charging bear to see realistically if I could do this and do it until I'm satisfied with the outcome. So there's that, because I highly doubt I will but if I prepare for a grizz anything smaller that isn't a feline will die. Besides moose idk I highly highly doubt I'll ever even see one but who knows. Also all this is implying running and all the other precautionary things are thrown out the door cause I'm not gonna just start blasting the minute I see a bear or predator.

Okay I had to get all that out there because previous posts got detailed by very minor details and I might have left out more but we'll find out. Anyways I really just need to know what 10mm rounds are best for bears? I hear the Xtreme penetrator as well as underwood hard cast and buffalo bore. Now I also have a Glock 20 and I do plan on getting a longer barrel for more velocity and because I hear stock barrels don't like hard cast much. Regardless a new barrel will be sliding in at one point or another. But main thing is which one does best? I searched YouTube up and down and not many have given me sufficient videos. Chukes and alasking ballistics are the best I could find on this topic.

[Kenk]

Welcome Chan, I am from MN as well. It would not be uncommon to run into a big black bear, and with Cubs could be problematic, but grizzlys not so much : ), as for ammo when up north, Underwood 220gr hard cast is my choice hands down. Good luck and be safe

Ken

[5pins]

Either the Underwood 220gr or 200gr will be more than enough for your needs. Buy some of both and see what works best for you.

Now that I think about it, you may have issues with the 220gr in the Glock's not stabilizing. Just try some or the 200gr and see. Assuming you can find it in stock. 

[sep]

Welcome Chan,

I'm from Minnesota originally too and live in Alaska now. If you don't handload, as the others have posted, 200 grain or larger hardcast or the largest monolithic bullets you can find should work. I would recommend you practice head, neck vertebrea and/or spine shots for bears. Hitting them there should immediately stop the attack.

I've read there are more black bear attacks in North America than grizzly attacks. I would expect that is because there are so many more black bears than grizzlies. Ironically, I have seen far more brown and grizzly bears in the wild than black bears but I have only been bluff charged by bears twice. Both times they were black bear sows with cubs. Fortunately. we didn't need to shoot either time.

We have a saying about bears up here in Alaska. "If it's brown, lay down, if it's black, fight back." For some reason, the general impression up here by many is if you are attacked by a lone black bear, it is a predatory attack and it will consume you. Brown/grizzly bears don't seem to do that as frequently. I don't know if actual bear attack statistics match up with that impression but that is what is believed by many. In either case, I'm convinced head, neck or spine shots are the best solution to your bear problem. I know four people up here who have killed brown/grizzly bears in what the State of Alaska refers to as "In defense of life or property". Three of the four were head shots and immediately stopped the bear. (10mm, 44 magnum, 300 weatherby) One took several rifle body shots before dying.

I know of no such self defense shootings of black bears in recent years but there have been black bear attacks. Two people were killed in Alaska by black bears in 2017. So, my view is if a head shot works on a Brown/Grizzly bear, it will work on a black bear. Enjoy your time in the woods!                     

[Markwell]

Chan,

See post #33 in the bear defense ammo thread below.

This a drill our friend Ken Hackathorn has used for quite some time.

Black bears do get quite big BTW.  We had a 604 pounder killed near here two years ago. One shot with a 6.5 crede did it in.

[Rojo27]

Welcome Chan,
+1 on the 200gr hardcast suggestions out of your Glock 20.  I've shot quite a bit of it out of mine without any issues, ftf, fte, key holes or hang ups of any kind.  Far and away my personal choice when in the woods that Brown/Grizzlies live & roam.   

Outside the rather modest areas in the lower 48 where Grizzlies live; you have many more very solid 10mm ammunition options in my opinion.     
180gr or 200gr JHP, XTP (Hornady, Underwood, Buffalo Bore)
180gr Gold  Dot JHP (Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore)
155gr Copper Tac-XP, or XPB (Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore)
Extreme Penetrator, Defender, Hunter lines from Underwood.
180gr Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw JSP
175gr Hornady Critical Duty

I wouldn't hesitate to hike, camp, hunt or fish in any non-grizzle area in the lower 48 with any of those options in my trusty 10mm.  I've hunted, harvested deer & quite a few brute feral hogs with several of those on the list and  they were very effective.  Several on that list have even taken Grizzlies in documented self defense situations. Remember however, just because "can or has been done;" doesn't make it ideal choice.  (Look up Bella Twin & Phil Shoemaker)....

Good luck Chan,
Enjoy the great outdoors!
   



 

[Roguer]

I can give barrel advice some what. Alphawolf barrels are available in 6.02", they are melonited and work pretty well. However from my experience, the XTP bullets mentioned above are wider than normal bullets and I've had FTF for my XTP bullets in my Glock 40. I'm not bashing Alphawolfs barrel, its just they were made for the more normal ammo out there I think. All my standard JHPs work and even my Double Tap 200 grain hard cast lead that did do in a critter that needed getting done in. I had to use the OEM barrel with the XTPs for deer hunting till I got the KKM barrels. I like to keep near max factory loads in my G-40 so I got the KKM barrels that I can use XTPs in at a mag switch. I've loaned out alphawolf barrels till the loanees came back from what ever trip or till they got their own Alphawolfs or what ever other barrels they got. One alphawolf barrel I got was the 40 cal conversion barrel for more affordable practice ammo, I THOUGHT 40 cal would be easier to find, LOL was I wrong, I find more 10mm that 40 cal! But still keeping it for the just over hundred rounds I got for a few long practice sessions I plan to do soon.

The best all round barrel to get I think is the KKM Barrel. Its surprisingly affordable compared to other barrels out there, but you pay for the ahead of time payment and the long wait period. The Alphawolf makes a good interim barrel if you got the cash and a blaster for when cheaper ammo comes back.

As for bears the reason for a 10mm for me was 15+1 in the gun. But make sure to use a GLOCK SAFE HOLSTER. I use blackhawks in the field. I also live in the Minn. My experience with them food pack thieves is let them have the food pack, but if they want you... But learn to recognize bear predation behavior and their predator lock ons they may have on you. I have a bear who hangs out around the old farm stead house, he never causes trouble, so I don't even "hunt/harvest/murder/whateverpeopleareusingforPCnameswhenyoumurdersomethingforkillingseason" because he also keeps more problem bears out of the area. But that's just me.


If you ever get a differn't barrel, KEEP THE OEM BARREL! Its as tough as heck and made to last a long time.

[RedTeam98]

The G20 is very popular in Alaska as a sidearm for Alaskan adventures. While camping or fishing. I have mine as a camp gun during hunting season and field dressing game. It?s only used as a last resort on bears. Here in Alaska a great Marlin 45/70 Trapper or 12Ga with Brenneke Original Slugs is my go weapon with the G20 10mm as a last resort under the bear weapon.

[Bongo Boy]

I certainly can't speak from experience or even 2nd-hand hearsay, but for me personally, if I was concerned enough about an animal that I felt compelled to shoot it and had to use a handgun, I'd want it to be a 44 Mag. That's just me.  I've seen a 600 lb black bear--my estimate is 350 lb is the max I've encountered, and while it appeared to be in a fairly good mood, if there had been cubs nearby I'd feel rather undergunned with a 10.  Lucky me, I've never been taken by surprise...yet.