How much is enough

[Kenk]

I always carry a 200 - 220gr hardcast in  mean critter territory, and 165gr Underwood 10mm for 2 legged threats. On a daily basis in an urban setting it's Federal's 124gr + P HST in my 3.8 - 9mm XDm compact

[Muskrat]

So I got tired of thinking about the Glock 27 vs 29 for a woods gun debate, so I bought a Glock 29 to try it out. Worst case scenario I'll loose $40 re-selling it.

I haven't shot the 27 and the 29 side-by-side, but I put a few hundred rounds through the 29 today and it shot a lot better than I expected. Granted my expectations were pretty low, but it shoots nice. I shot average 165 grain loads, warm 200 grain loads, and real warm 226 grain loads.

226 grain hard cast bullets don't tumble...pretty accurate all in all. I seem to loose about 60~90 fps over the 6" barrel I have in my G20, but that still means a 226 grain bullet going over 1000 fps without worrying about brass or recoil springs. How much better is that than a 180 grain bullet going 1050 fps from my G27? I don't know. Neither load is maxed out by any means, but both are medium-warm to almost-hot, which is where I'm comfortable with hand-loading.

The only bummer is I assumed that the 20 and the 29 would use the same holster...they don't. For some reason the 29 is a wee bit wider in the slide. The tipping point for buying the 29 was that I didn't want to buy a new Kenia chest holster for the 27, but now I'm in the exact same position for the 29. First world problems...

I'll have a thousand rounds through the G29 by the end of the month and a better idea of what the gun really is, but my first impression is that it's a lot more than I thought it would be.

[Kenk]

You could always get just the G29 skin and swap out the harness from your G27. Thats was my plain for the RIA FS HC, but Kenia sent a harness at no additional charge 😀

[Bimmer]

... a 226 grain bullet going over 1000 fps without worrying about brass or recoil springs. How much better is that than a 180 grain bullet going 1050 fps from my G27? I don't know.

Find out:

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

[Muskrat]

... a 226 grain bullet going over 1000 fps without worrying about brass or recoil springs. How much better is that than a 180 grain bullet going 1050 fps from my G27? I don't know.

Find out:

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

Thanks for the link, but kinetic energy is a meaningless measurement of lethality, especially for handgun rounds. People think there's a "energy dump", but there isn't. There's just the destruction of body parts by contact with the projectile.

[Bimmer]

Thanks for the link, but kinetic energy is a meaningless measurement of lethality, especially for handgun rounds. People think there's a "energy dump", but there isn't. There's just the destruction of body parts by contact with the projectile.

Of course it's not everything, but kinetic energy is hardly "meaningless." 

You did ask "how much better... " and one easy and objective measure would energy. 

[Mike D]

... a 226 grain bullet going over 1000 fps without worrying about brass or recoil springs. How much better is that than a 180 grain bullet going 1050 fps from my G27? I don't know.

Find out:

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

Thanks for the link, but kinetic energy is a meaningless measurement of lethality, especially for handgun rounds. People think there's a "energy dump", but there isn't. There's just the destruction of body parts by contact with the projectile.

Glad to see someone else feels the same way I do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sqlbullet]

Kinetic energy is like horsepower.  It is a measure of how much work can be done.  Plenty of high horspower cars lose drag races becuase of lack of traction where the rubber meets the road.

More kinetic energy means more potential to do damage just like more horsepower means more potential to go fast.  Whether or not that energy is used to do actual damage is in the province of bullet design.  And therein lay the rub.

Since most handgun cartridges product 300-500 lb-ft of energy at the muzzle, most self defense handgun bullets are optimized to perform in that energy range.  Get much over that and you either get over-penetration or fragmentation and under-penetration, both of which are bad for actually doing damage in the vitals region where it matters in stopping a threat.

So, KE has meaning...just not the meaning most people ascribe to it.

[Muskrat]

Well put.

I'm not sure when or where KE numbers started appearing on cartridge boxes, but I bet anything it was an idea from the marketing department. Of all the factors that determine how well a (handgun) bullet performs, KE is almost negligible.

One thing KE numbers to tell you with great precision is the amount of recoil a round produces. It seems most people don't understand that the KE delivered to the target is the exact same as the KE delivered to the shooters hand, less wind drag.

Now someone tell me again about "knockdown power"..

[Bimmer]

I'm not sure when or where KE numbers started appearing on cartridge boxes, but I bet anything it was an idea from the marketing department. Of all the factors that determine how well a (handgun) bullet performs, KE is almost negligible.

One thing KE numbers to tell you with great precision is the amount of recoil a round produces. It seems most people don't understand that the KE delivered to the target is the exact same as the KE delivered to the shooters hand, less wind drag.

I'm right with you there...  Putting KE numbers on cartridge boxes would be like putting MPG ratings on gas pumps:  Absurd. 

KE is mostly about velocity (that's the part that counts exponentially), and we all know that no two guns will fire the same cartridge at the same velocity, even with the same barrel length... 


Recoil:  In terms of basic physics, you're right, but we all know that "felt" recoil has as much  to do with the gun (again) as the cartridge. 

Technically a given cartridge has the same recoil, regardless whether it's fired from a G29 or a G40 (or it would, if the velocity were the same), but we all know that the G29 will "kick" way more than the G40 (ironically, even though the velocity and KE would be higher from the G40). 

[Kenk]

I've learned a great deal from this thread, Thanks!