38 Special New Powders; 125gr JHP +P

[RDub01]

Hello

Continuing to test these new powders
IMR Target
IMR Blue
244
572

This time looking into the 38 Special 125gr JHP +P arena and see what happens.
This could be considered a continuation of the work done two years ago with the 125gr JHP +P in 38 Special.  The same 686 gun was used this time as last time.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/473596-look-125gr-jhp-p.html

Last time the Magtech 125gr JHP used.  This time, a generic 125gr JHP was used that are available at NE Shooters Supply for a very reasonable price.




With each of the new powders I loaded a four load ladder, five rounds each.

IMR lists as max loads;
572  6.1grs.
244  5.6grs.
IMR Target  5.0grs.
IMR Blue is uncharted territory.

Plus some favorite handloads just for comparison.

Winchester brass was used with the new powder loads.  Federal brass was used for the other handloads.  All with +P head stamps.

Please bear in mind this is experimental exploration and not to be considered as loading data.

So here is how it all went;







First, the Buffalo Bore and Remington factory loads.
When I sat down at the bench to shoot the BB load, I was expecting something fairly stout.  To my surprise the load was very pleasant to shoot considering the velocity it was delivering.  Whatever the propellant BB is using here, it is outstanding in this application.  I did a pull-down here; 

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/38-special-buffalo-bore-125gr-jhp-p-20b/


For those that carry a .38 Special rated for +P ammo, this load would be worth looking into.

The Remington load shot virtually the same as last time. 

Now for the handloads;

I have to say this generic 125gr bullet shot pretty well.  There are some nice tight groups here.

Let's start with 572.
Very strange to say the least..  I started with 5.8grs. which only clocked at an average of 721 fps and had an extreme spread of 352 fps!.  Don't believe I had ever seen anything like that before.
But then at 6.0grs., very close to IMR's max load, it behaved a lot better at 902 fps and 31 fps spread.  But then, at 6.2 grs. it went backwards and delivered 888 fps.  Then at 6.4grs., it delivered 923 fps.. A whopping 21 fps gain over 6.0grs.
I had no issues with 572 in the .40 S&W or 10mm.  Nor did I see anything weird with mid-range cast bullet loads in .357 Mag.
I originally thought that 572 was just cold blooded in 38 Special,  as I had been shooting in rather cool weather lately, but what I believe is going on here is 572 wants to be burned at a higher pressure.  In fact Winchester has stated that 572 is ideally suited for 9mm and 38 Super +P loads, which are definitely relatively high working pressure loads.

So to make 572 work well in 38 Special, it would have to be loaded up toward 357 Mag pressures.  For this reason I don't believe 572 will be very useful in 38 Special that need to be kept down around 16K-18K psi.

BTW, I experienced pretty much the same thing in 38 Special with Sport Pistol.  I had no issues with Sport Pistol in the auto loaders.  It performed neck and neck with IMR Target and 244, but in .38 Special it acted very strange also. So for this reason I didn't test Sport Pistol here.

Now for 244 and IMR Target;
Both of these had a very distinct velocity jump in the ladder, 244 between 5.4 and 5.6, and IMR Target between 5.2 and 5.4.  They both shot virtually the same velocity at 5.6grs.
5.6grs. 244 looks to be a textbook +P load and produced the tightest group in the 244 ladder.
5.0grs. IMR Target, the max load, seems a little slow for a +P load..  5.2grs. shot much better.

A note about 244.. It is very dense, as dense as HS-6. I've had a set of Little Dandy Rotors, #03 to #26, since the early '80's and have not had a need for anything smaller. Well I'm going to load 3.9-4.0grs of 244 with 158gr 38 Specials, so I had to go and purchase a #02 rotor. The #02 drops 3.9grs.  The #03 drops 4.4grs.

IMR Blue did fairly well.  I was expecting IMR Blue to trail behind Blue Dot quite a bit, as it did in other trials with other calibers, but this time it didn't trail much at all here. Blue Dot shot this generic bullet much slower than with the Magtech.
IMR Blue also had a distinct velocity jump in the middle of the ladder.

9.9grs. produced the best group and it was also the snappiest.  I would suspect this load to be hovering around the 20K psi mark, but that is only a hunch.. We won't really know until it is professionally tested and some published data comes out, but recoil felt like pressures were up there.
The other handloads did ok with this bullet. It is clear, looking at the graph, the generic bullet shoots slower than the Magtech bullet, the exception being BE-86, where the two are virtually the same.  Ambient temps were fairly close so that wouldn't account the change.

Here is a graph.



Black is what was recorded two years ago. Red is what was done recently.
Well that's it for now. Hopefully this will be helpful.
As is often the case with projects like this, we set out to answer some questions, but we instead wind up with more questions..

[The_Shadow]

Thanks again for the great range report...