What’s wrong with Plain Jane Hornady 180gr XTP.

[The_Shadow]

Well after surfing thru the Lucky Gunner site I see they tested the 200gr Gold Dot load and got @19.5" of penetration in their test.   The big "AND" is that the Gold Dot is $17/20 rds compared to $20/20 rds for the Hornady load.

Since my 200gr cast load hits very close to the Speer load we may have found my "stock it deep" decision.

Rick. Thanks for your service.  I have been begging Speer to make the 200 grain Gold Dots available to the handloading community as components.
The reason being is the extra weight and being a bonded bullet really makes a difference.  I have some older 200 gr Gold Dots that were from a pulled 40S&W contract.  They are bonded but are slightly different than those being made today.

Now about squeezing more velocity from our rounds, for me is performance out at distances beyond 50 yards where velocities will be more of that of slower muzzle velocities to retain flatter trajectories and energy out there at distance!  In close they tend to expand more rapidly and actually have slightly less penetration...

I have no issue with the use of Hornady's bullets  XTP or HAP as they are great bullets.  I have even driven a 200 XTP in a 40 cal sabot from my Muzzle loader starting at 2000 fps at the muzzle and even out at 150 yards they do quite well on deer.  Busting ribs in, lungs hit and ribs on the far side with bullet just under the hide of the farside...

Here is the data that was related to the Hornady Ammo specs.


The performance envelope for the 10mm XTP was 850 to 1200 fps

[Rick R]

I figure it's a matter of time until Speer makes the 200gr Gold Dot available as a component.  As it is their factory load seemed to get the job done in Lucky Gunner's gel test.  The up side is that load is easy to shoot and probably pretty kind to 1911s.  Hornady ammo is a bit easier to find in stores with the bonus of reloading XTPs being available now.

I figure the 10mm started out as a 200gr load (albeit at @ 1,200fps), so the 180gr is a "Lite" load, all the rest are "Special Purpose". 

[Grenadier]

Rojo27 and Kenk, the .45 ACP cartridges you discussed illustrate exactly the sort of differences I was talking about. The Lucky Gunner's gel tests help us determine what each of them is better suited for.

The Federal .45 ACP +P 230gr HST is a great face-to-face defensive cartridge. It expands fast and dumps its energy quickly without over-penetrating. But, despite its +P rating, it would not be my choice for wilderness carry because of those very same characteristics.



Conversely, Sig's .45 ACP 200gr V-Crown has twice the penetration, carries its energy very deep, and is more likely to smash through bone and to produce an exit wound that leaves a decent blood trail. I would consider it a good choice for wilderness carry and hunting. But it would not be my first choice for urban defensive carry because of those very same characteristics.



And here we are, back to the OP's original question, "What deficiency does the Hornady load present for self defense, hunting, target shooting, zombie apocalypse, etc that would make the other available factory loads SUBSTANTIALLY better?" There is nothing wrong with the 180gr XTP for it's intended use. But I contend that use does not include wilderness carry and hunting and, yes, there are factory loads substantially better for those uses.

[sqlbullet]

SQL> Select from dbo.10mm.users where "clue" > 0
SQL> one row returned
sqlbullet


Forgive my grammar, I haven't written sql queries in several years. 

Thanks for the well thought out response.

Good stuff.  Nice to meet people who know what the "sql" refers to!

Well after surfing thru the Lucky Gunner site I see they tested the 200gr Gold Dot load and got @19.5" of penetration in their test.   The big "AND" is that the Gold Dot is $17/20 rds compared to $20/20 rds for the Hornady load.

Since my 200gr cast load hits very close to the Speer load we may have found my "stock it deep" decision.

Couldn't agree more.  Lots of factors at play when selecting a load, and price and comparability to practice ammo are two big ones in my book.

sqlbullet,
So would the .45 Auto V-Crown apply in that caliber as a top choice for defensive purposes also, or do you see better alternatives
Thanks

Ken

Ken,
I'm far from sqlbullet but Sig's 45acp 200gr V-Crown did not do well in Lucky Gunners test....
https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-200-grain-jhp-v-crown-sig-sauer-20-rounds#geltest
For defensive purposes, I stay away from it in 45acp.....

Very, very hard to beat the Federal HST, Remington Golden Sabers, Winchester Ranger T, Hornady XTP  in 45acp!!

Rojo27 is being modest, as his own comments here show.  He had lots of great knowledge that is relevant, and that info about clear versus actual 10% ballistics gel is new information to me!

And, his comments about the 200 grain 45 ACP v-crown are spot on.  Those RangerT rounds are impressive, expanding to over double the initial size and still getting right there in penetration.  The only 10mm round that came close to that expanded diameter was the Barnes, and it still needed to get another 25% bigger to catch up.

If you have HST's on hand they are a solid go-to round.  Huge expansion, consistent and right in there on penetration.

[Rick R]

I made some of my question vague to get more ideas involved.  I live and play in the Eastern US so "bear" is up to 400# black and "deer" is up to 240# whitetail.  "Wilderness" is hiking in the National Forest in WV or the property around my house so a round should be adequate for methheads, marijuana farmers, feral dogs, coyote, and the cougars that people get on game cams but DNR says we don't have.  No big bear.  DNR tried stocking wild boar @30 years ago and they didn't survive.  (Ponder on that tidbit)

For those of you that live out West where "bear" includes grizz and "deer" includes moose I'm sure other loads are more attractive.  I'd be carrying my .44 Mountain Gun.

[Rick R]

I also decided to follow The_Shadow's lead and pester Speer for 200gr Gold Dot component bullets. While on their site I found that they have some new load data with newer powders.  Check it out:

https://www.speer-ammo.com/

Speaking of Winchester Ranger T ammo, I think a 200gr bonded T bullet at full 10mm loading would be hard to beat.  One of my favorite .44 factory loads is the Winchester Platinum 250gr which is a prettied up Ranger T bullet in .429".

[sqlbullet]

For those of you that live out West where "bear" includes grizz and "deer" includes moose I'm sure other loads are more attractive.  I'd be carrying my .44 Mountain Gun.

The problem where I live i the mountain west is that the mule deer and bigger black bears make significant excursions into the city.  I live in the SLC Metro area.  From my house to national forest is about 2 miles.  Bear have regularly been sighted 4.5 miles from my home...In the OTHER direction, as in more metro.

So, I need potent, packable and high capacity    Glock 20 stoked with 180 XTP's fits the bill, but the backup magazine has some 200 grain hard cast.

[Kenk]

Nice, I would pack the same in that area!

[tcecil88]

I started out on the Hornady 180's, then switched to the Underwood 200 gr. XTP's. Indiana requires a hollow point for hunting so the hard cast 220 gr. boolits are out. I am going to try the 200 gr. Gold Dot, they expand larger, but also penetrate farther, looking at Lucky Gunner's data. They are comparably priced too.