Got the Rock Island 10mm commander working properly!

[Bruno747]

So I have hinted in a few posts that my rock island 10mm was not up to snuff on reliability. I have sent it back to RIA who promptly polished the ramp, hood, mag lips, and replaced the recoil and main spring with ones more appropriate for the 10mm in a commander. once I got it back, one of the types of jams that I commonly got was resolved, but 2 out of every three mags would have a round turn 90 and jam between the barrel and the breech pushing the other rounds down.

After discussing with RIA about it and feeling that their general consensus was to replace the gun, I felt that I ought to take a whack at it. I spoke with the gunsmith there and he advised me that so long as i didn't go overboard on anything I did to it, the would cover the function issues. Especially since this gun has already been sent back once.

So off I went, I adjusted and worked the extractor over it was way too tight, and had some really rough edges. Took it out and still got some jams but the problem had dropped to maybe 1 in 3 mags. Better, but still not carry material.

I went back to the drawing board and noticed that the ejector was pushing the top round down some what and as it came out of the mag slowly hand running the slide without a recoil spring, it would tilt right before the mag would release the round. I pulled the ejector and took a fine file to it, fitting every few strokes of the file till the tilting issue was gone. Reworked the angle on the face of it to make the rounds eject in a cleaner pattern as well. Took the gun back to the range and the problems has surely dropped to 1 in 4 mags with handloads at original 10mm specs, and the still 1 in 3 with the federal ammo. This confirmed to me that all other things being equal, there must be a timing issue, it dawned on me that the mag couldn't get the rounds up and steady fast enough for the slide to properly strip the next one.

I promptly ordered some +10% delta elite springs from Wolf and put them in as soon as I got them. I dont know what springs the RIA mag had in it to start with, but the new ones were way more than +10%. The originals were WEAK! I always thought it was a little to easy to load those mags.

Sure enough, took it out to the range today running a variety of factory and hand loads. 300+ rounds later and only one failure which was my fault. I bumped the slide lock and locked it back on accident. So I can finally say that I think I have this thing licked! A few more hundred rounds without an issue not related to my fault or faulty ammo and I will feel confident enough in it to make it a EDC weapon.

Thus the summary is as follows.

New recoil and main spring, off the top of my head the recoil is 24lb and I don't remember what the mainspring is.
New Wolf +10% Delta Elite Mag Springs
File and polish bottom of ejector as well as reface surface to eject higher.
Polish and adjust extractor for tension and feed reliability
Polish hood, ramp, and mag lips

In short, I am one happy camper! 

[sqlbullet]

Great report!  I too have learned the value of +10% mag springs in 10mm guns.  All my EAA mags carry them.

If I may offer a suggestion...I notice a flat bottom firing pin stop is absent from your list.  I would strongly suggest you add one to the mix, and then back down the recoil spring.  A 24 lb recoil spring puts a lot of undue stress on the link, link pin, slide stop pin and to a lesser degree the barrel bushing.

I found with a flat bottom firing pin stop + a 25 lb mainspring I could go back to an 18.5 lb recoil spring with the same reliability, maybe even a bit better, in my Para P-16/40-10mm.

[Bruno747]

I have seen that in several places about the flat bottom pin stop.

What's the thought here? I would think that would put undue wear on the hammer among other things. I would welcome a way to run a lighter recoil spring, getting the spring guide rod and bushing apart is a bear with a 24 pound spring.


Also, no barrel bushing in this one, all the RIA 10mm's that I know of have "Bull Barrels" which I find humorous because they are only bull barrels for the last bit before the end of the barrel.


Now to run another thousand or so rounds and then send it off to be refinished in nickel boron!

[sqlbullet]

The hammer is hardened steel.  Not gonna wear it at all.

The flat bottom decreases significantly the mechanical advantage the slide has over the hammer.  Also, as a point of reference, the original M1911 had this type of firing pin stop as designed by the prophet John M Browning.  The army changed to the modern radius with the M1911A1 to make it easier for GI's to rack the slide.

If you check in at the 1911 sites, the purists will often make this change to 45 ACP 1911's as it softens the perceived recoil a good bit.

[Bruno747]

Intriguing, looks like Ill have to add that to my list of items along with a heavier main spring and weaker recoil spring. See if I can get it running the way that you mention.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[kilibreaux]

Interesting because my RIA's have been stellar performers....my .45's and my .38 Super only began to complain when I shot super-hot Underwood ammo out of her!

[will965]

well   I wish  would have read this before I bought mine.my Rock Island MS tactical commander is a jam o matic it's already back at Armscor  after the first week hopefully Armscor does something with it and will stop the jamming as I've invested about 600 plus in this gun and I'm definitely not happy I'm sitting here with all the loading materials  and no gun to shoot them in. I'm hopefully going to order a few mags in the next week or so. I'm just not sure what kind I keep hearing Tripp mags or maybe just the Armscor mags but there so many different opinions I'm not sure. I'm definitely going to look into the 10% extra springs to put in any mags I get. I will keep reading your stuff and hopefully i can get this gun working.

[10mmfan]

well   I wish  would have read this before I bought mine.my Rock Island MS tactical commander is a jam o matic it's already back at Armscor  after the first week hopefully Armscor does something with it and will stop the jamming as I've invested about 600 plus in this gun and I'm definitely not happy I'm sitting here with all the loading materials  and no gun to shoot them in. I'm hopefully going to order a few mags in the next week or so. I'm just not sure what kind I keep hearing Tripp mags or maybe just the Armscor mags but there so many different opinions I'm not sure. I'm definitely going to look into the 10% extra springs to put in any mags I get. I will keep reading your stuff and hopefully i can get this gun working.

I have to armscor 10mms and both like kimber mags and and my full size likes tripp my ms has some issues with it. I had an issue with my mags pressing against the slide stop locking it back at random.

[will965]

Mine locked the slide too...also nosedives rounds and even stovepiped a live round..

[10mmfan]

Stovepiping a live round is interesting, maybe really bad feed lips on the mag? I'd try a kimber or tripp mag and see what happens.

[will965]

yeah been cruising the internet looking for deals on trip mags or something decent. The stove pipe of a life around was a first for me I don't think I've ever seen that

[Bruno747]

Well I had it malfunction again, but I think this was a problem of too many rounds, no cleaning.

I was running it as part of a friendly competition over the last few days. I had well close to 500rds through it and it started to hang up the same way it used to, either it catches on the hood, or it "nosedives" as people call it.

I reached in with a rag and wiped out the burnt on stuff with some hoppes #9, wiped the mag lips down with some oil and it was back to running again.

I may take some additional material off the hood where the bullet snags just to keep this from happening. I have the square firing pin block but have not installed it. Got another +10% spring and it fixed the wilson mag too. Since putting in the springs, I havent had a single round spin in the mag.



Will, who is working on your gun? I think the person that worked on mine was cody? Ill have to go check the tag. Anyway, ask him to put some a stiffer recoil spring and main spring in it. That combined with the extractor tension fixed most of my problems.

[will965]

Bruno,
I called last week and they hadn't gotten to look at my gun yet so I'm going to call them. it's been there 3 weeks I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out who's working on it. I will absolutely mention the addition of the springs, thank you for your advice. I will also look for the 10% springs for the others magazines.  I'm going to buy some of the metalform mags. they have pretty good reputation and they are exactly like the one that is somewhat reliable in my gun now.