How to use Lee FCD without full-length-sizing (PIC HEAVY)

Started by RMM, June 11 2013 03:56:18 PM MDT

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RMM

Richard - G20SF

The_Shadow

The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
NRA Life Member
Southeast, LoUiSiAna

DM1906

Yes, nice pictorial.

I think something is amiss with your results.  Either your FCD is defective (undersize), or there's something we aren't seeing here.  I repeated your process (the important parts) with 10 dumby rounds.  5 Remington once fired brass, 5 new Starline, and 180 gr. TC cast bare bullets (no lube), .402".

Results:
Case mouth/wall, after firing, no tooling:  .424".
Lee FCD, case only, no crimp ring, full length case size:  .422".
Sizing die (3 used, one 20 year old Lee, one 5 year old Lee, one 5 year old RCBS):  .419".

Bullets seated to 1.250", no crimp
Case mouth to bullet base:  .422-.423".
Lee FCD only, no crimp ring:  .422"
-- Bullets pulled measured .402" full length of bearing surface.

Lee FCD with crimp ring.
In accordance with the instructions, approximately 3/4 (three fourths) turn after ring contact.
Case mouth:  .421", .422" within .050" of mouth.  1-1/2 (one and one half) turns:  .420".
Bullets pulled:  Minimal crimp, .402".  Additional crimp (1-1/2 turn): .400, but only in the "groove" caused by the crimped case mouth, .402" behind that.

I continued crimping at one full turn each.  Bullet diameter never changed, with only the case mouth crimp area reducing each time.  The minimum diameter with "normal" force needed was never below .400", while excessive crimping (several turns), didn't feel right and was obviously excessive.  The MOST I could get the bullet to squeeze down to was .397", but that was ONLY at the area of the crimp.  The forward driving band was tapered to the crimp, but the rear area of the forward band was still a minimum of .401".  The rear driving band never changed.  Always .402", no matter how much FCD crimp was applied.  Trying to get a diameter below .397" resulted in a crushed case.

How any .400" bullet can be reduced excessively in diameter by only the FCD (assuming it is correctly sized), and cause a leading condition is beyond me.

What is the diameter of an empty case sized ONLY in your FCD, with no crimp ring?  If it's less than .422", that could explain the problem.  If so, the tool is defective.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

RMM

DM, I agree with you whole-heartedly. Thank you for taking the time to give us your data point and experience.  My FCD is sizing ring is undersized.  It touches all of my rounds every time, even FMJ to varying degrees(180 HST & 200 XTP).  Thick case walls (Like PMC) exacerbate the problem, loading 180 HST in a PMC case requires considerable effort to push through the ring.  My 9mm & 357 FCD do not do this, every once-in-a-while I get a round that feels like it is lightly being sized, nothing at all like what I am seeing here.  This is definitely a sizing ring diameter issue, it has nothing to do with the crimping portion of the die.  The swaging occurs well before the crimping portion of the die is contacted.

After doing some research it is apparent that there is a wide variance (although we're only talking thousands-of-an-inch) in Lee FCD sizing rings.  Some get a loose one, some get a tight one, and some (like you DM) get one that is just right.  What isn't right is having to spend $25 to get them to open it up to the correct size.  I am going to contact Lee and see what they have to say about opening it up.  I can understand contacting on oversize bullets, but not on FMJ on every loaded round. 

I appreciate all of your comments, and if I am wrong about this I have no problem in admitting so.  I am a scientist at heart and like to really understand what is going on with stuff like this.
Richard - G20SF

DM1906

From what you've posted, it looks like yours is about .002" undersize.  This is not acceptable, and is probably the major cause of your leading issue.  I too have several others, and they're all dead-nuts on.

I wouldn't "pay" to have it corrected.  It should be right, and the warranty should cover it.  $25 gets you a new die, so spending $25 to repair one (especially under warranty) is just crazy.  I've always had excellent customer service from Lee over the past 30 years, including the last experience about a month ago.  Give them a call with your measurements/results and request a replacement.  At most, it should cost no more than a phone call and postage to send them yours.  Lee Precision:  (262) 673-3075
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

RMM

DM1906... what is the measurement on your FCD sizing ring?  I'm going to go pull mine out now and see what it is. 
Richard - G20SF

RMM

.420 as close as I can measure with my Harbor Freight calipers. 
Richard - G20SF

sqlbullet

I think alot of the issues people have with Lee service can be traced to how problems are described.  I think they treat "my FCD is out of spec small" differently than "I need my FCD opened up a bit".

But I couldn't say.  I do know i have read reports that they wander a bit on spec.

DM1906

Mine is measuring .421/2 with digital, and .4218 with analog.  I slugged a couple .430 lead bullets through it and they're .422, .4219, respectively.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

RMM

Sounds like I'd be happy if it were opened up about 2 thousandths of an inch.
Richard - G20SF

DM1906

Perhaps, but as SQL said, that may be the wrong language.  I'd be more inclined to have it replaced with a tool that's not defective.  If our measurements are accurate, the fact is defective, not "need to open it up".
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

RMM

I had to explain my problem several times but Lee authorized the return of the FCD under Warranty.  They will inspect and repair or replace. 
Richard - G20SF


gandog56

Quote from: RMM link=topic=1318.msg16317#msg16317 date=1370987778
The amount of bell given (just enough for the bullet to sit flush by itself and not shave any material)
img]http://alphaphotography.smugmug.com/Ammo/Lee-FCD/i-H2jzzhx/0/L/IMAG0242-L.jpg[/img]

You had me scared a second there. I was thinking he's CRAZY if the bullet sticks out that far. I now assume this was BEFORE you seated the bullet!
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?