Strengthening background checks; what exactly do they want added?

[Kenk]

I?m a little confused, what is it about our current background check system that is missing, or more importantly, what more do the gun grabbers really want added to it? In MN, as with many states I?m sure, you are getting checked twice, a BG check for your permit-to-purchase, or your carry permit, and then again with the The National NICS  System when making a firearm purchase.  When it comes to gun shows, I have never been aloud to slide, so this supposed loophole is once again confusing. So the bottom line is, what more is there to check on?

[38_Super]

What they want is anything they can get added.  Incrementally working towards a de-facto ban if they cannot get one outright.

[Kenk]

Absolutely, kinda like putting a frog in a pot of water and ever so slowly increasing the heat. They are pretty good at incrementally eroding our rights inch by inch

[challer61]

A mental health test

[blaster]

they want what every tyrant throughout history has wanted. disarmed peasants.

[BEEMER!]

What they are trying to do is make it manditory that a 4473 Form be filled out for every gun transaction.

Right now I can sell you a firearm in a face to face transaction without any paper work.  They want to make it manditory that every transfer go through a Dealer with a FFL to make it legal.

This would hold true for you to receive a firearm from your Father or if you wanted to give a firearm to your son or daughter.

[sqlbullet]

Beemer is spot on.

Today, you only have to fill out a 4473 and do an NCIS for federal law if you buy from an FFL.  If you buy from a private party you are good to go from a federal standpoint (assuming you are complying with the rest of the cadre of federal requirements).

Different states may have additional burdens.

Kenk, you correctly identify that MN is one of those states.  In my home state of Utah, there is no such thing as a permit to purchase. Utah is a constitutional carry state, which means if you are not a prohibited person you are free to carry a concealed handgun.  Buying a gun here in Utah from an FFL is fast and easy if you are familiar with the 4473.  Takes me about ten minutes door to door at my FFL of choice, including the background check.

If you buy from an FFL at a gunshow, the requirements are the same as if you had walked into the FFL's place of business.  But, anybody can get a table or booth at a gun show to sell stuff, and as long as the number of guns they sell doesn't constitute a "business" by ATF standards, they don't have to have an FFL and don't have to require buyers to complete a 4473 or a background check. 

The "gunshow" loophole is a misnomer for their desire to create a national gun registry. A useful first step would be to open NCIS up in such a way that private parties can actually execute a background check. 

While Utah in general is very gun friendly, the Salt Lake County Council is pretty left leaning.   A few years back they prohibited gun sales without a background check on county owned venues, and the local convention center where the gun shows are held is county owned.  They sprung this about two days before a gun show, clearly with the intent of interfering with the show.  The problem was they provided no mechanism for private parties to carry out a background check.

Luckily a local FFL agreed to provide the NCIS checks and paperwork for a standard $10 fee + the state NCIS charge which is $7.50 (free for CFP holders).  But volume of transactions created a 1 hour wait in three different lines to complete a private party purchase;  First to have the county review the bill of sale, Second for the FFL/NCIS check and Third a control check at the door to verify that you had been through the other two lines.  No private party purchases failed the background check.

The fact is the vast majority of crime is committed with stolen guns.  That is why the most common gun type used in crime follows the most popular gun sales trends.  The most common ammunition used is what was in/near the gun when it was stolen.  Crime, gun or otherwise, is a symptom of a sick society, and until we are willing to address the causes of our societal ills, crime is not going away.

[challer61]

Virginia and many other states require a 4473 in all transfers, even to family

[John A.]

They'd be perfectly content denying you based on facebook social media scores and whatever other reason they can think of to add or use (and abuse).  I haven't read the proposal for red flag bs, but I will bet everyone who has already posted in this topic $10 if you want to take my bet that they won't add safeguards or penalties for anyone wrongfully and maliciously who make reports against someone.  I'm that confident in my assumptions because wrongfully accusing people with EPO's and stuff happens every day and far too frequently and easily now.

Even getting caught cheating on a math test when you were in the 3rd grade would suit them just fine if it fails you.  Anything to accomplish their goals, they'll eat the elephant one bite at a time until it is gone.

And to make it worse, none of that is going to make schools safer.  It's just going to be yet another burden for lawful gun owners to have to go through and endure.

[Kenk]

in all reality , just enforcing the laws on the books would be a good start

[Kenk]

In MN, the Dems are are working overtime to try and ramrod something through. Our local group, The Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus is, and will continue to fight hard. As of the last several years, I?d rather give my money to them instead of the NRA

https://gunowners.mn

[John A.]

Yeah, I haven't contributed to the NRA in a long time because their compromise point of view does not go along with mine.

I'm not going to go into an nra bash-fest, but the 3 most awful gun laws (NFA,GCA, and FOPA) were compromised away with help from the NRA.

And I also didn't like their statements about bump stocks after the vegas shooting either.  So, the NRA is dead to me.  Anyone else is welcome to support whomever they wish, but my views of rights and their views, do not coincide with each other.

I do appreciate a few other pro rights orgs.  GOA, FPC to name two.

[Mike D]

Yeah, I haven't contributed to the NRA in a long time because their compromise point of view does not go along with mine.

I'm not going to go into an nra bash-fest, but the 3 most awful gun laws (NFA,GCA, and FOPA) were compromised away with help from the NRA.

And I also didn't like their statements about bump stocks after the vegas shooting either.  So, the NRA is dead to me.  Anyone else is welcome to support whomever they wish, but my views of rights and their views, do not coincide with each other.

I do appreciate a few other pro rights orgs.  GOA, FPC to name two.

Definitely need a like button on this post!


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[Mike D]

Ken what I hear being discussed on ?enhanced? background checks through the NICS system is being able to go back and see juvenile records.


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[Kenk]

Hey Mike, that?s what I?ve seen as well. Not sure how I feel about that, but if a person is a violent carjacken kind of thug when they are, say 17, they should have been tried as an adult in the first place. In Mpls, as well as a ton of other Dem run cities, they holdem a few hours and cutem free, good thing I?m not a DA or judge I guess