Recoil Springs in Long Slide 1911's

[BEEMER!]

Last fall I purchased a Les Baer Premier II, 6" 10mm Hunter.  For a multitude of reasons, I have not shot it until recently.
I was going to have a 9X25 barrel fitted from the start so I purchased a 9mm barrel from Fred Kart as they supply most of Baer's barrels.  They are not supplying the 10mm barrels I found out.  I already had a 9X25 Clymer Reamer so I took the whole mess down to my Gunsmith to do the work.  He had it about 2 months before he was able to get to it.  He finished it about two weeks ago and he test fired it with some Underwood ammo I supplied him with.  He said it shot very well but he has never seen cases thrown as far as this gun.  I fired 5 rounds and what he said was true so I quit until a heavier recoil spring could be obtained so as not to damage the gun.

The long slide Baer uses a full length spring instead of a reverse plug and 5" springs like most 6 inchers.  The stock spring pulled 16.5 pounds on my Gunsmith's gauge.  I was really surprised.  Now the slide, barrel, bushing, and spring and recoil parts weigh 22.6 oz on this gun, so that is a factor.

I decided to see what Wolff Springs had to offer for long slide 1911's and here is a link to their solution.

Recoil Springs - 1911 Longslide Modifications

"Longslide modifications to 1911 pistols often require a longer than normal recoil spring. Wolff longslide recoil springs are designed for use in pistols with recoil spaces up to 3" (when slide is in full recoil position). 5 different strength recoil springs are available denoted as #1 thru #5. Due to the custom nature of these modifications, no rating for these springs is possible. The #1 recoil spring is the strongest and #5 is the lightest. Fitting of these springs is required. Professional installation suggested."
Here are Wolff's instructions.

https://www.gunsprings.com/content/File/Colt%20Longslide%20Recoil%20Instructions.pdf

I ordered 3 of the .047" springs.  The "Go to Solid" length is 2.625" or about 56 coils.  The Baer stock spring was a .046"  spring at 42 coils.  I cut the spring at 55 coils and tested it for strength and it is right at 22#.

That is as far as I have gotten and I have not shot the gun yet with the new spring. 

Has anyone else used these springs from Wolff in a long slide 10mm or 9X25 or for any other longslide for that matter?

[Trapper6L]

I have a Remington R1 6" 10mm that threw brass into orbit with every pull of the trigger. You'll find like I did that the "recoil spring" is not named appropriately. Most of the work done by the recoil spring is to return the slide to the firing position. It has very little effect on the actual recoil slide speed. This comes from folks that build 1911's for a living. The most change to effect how far it throws brass will be a flat bottom firing pin stop and and heavier hammer spring. The firing pin stop changes the leverage  dynamics of when and how fast the initial slide acceleration takes place when the gun first goes off. It will slow the slide speed considerably. A heavier hammer spring makes it harder for the slide to move rearward. I went with a 25lb hammer spring and a flat bottom firing pin stop to fix mine. Now that I have the slide speed down, instead of having to call NASA to get my brass back, it throws it about 20 feet. Not fabulous but not bad. None of the changes above effects the trigger at all. It took a tremendous amount of violence out of shooting the gun. It's more like shooting heavy 9mm loads. But I also did the Wolf recoil springs to begin with and there was zero change in anything about about the gun or brass. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to fit the long recoil spring so a smitty is not required, just a hairs worth of grey matter is enough.
FWIW, I don't shoot any reduced velocity loads but no nuclear loads either. Most of my ammo is 12.8grs 2400 under a 180gr bullet at 1250'ps by the book. I don't have a chronograph anymore to give you exacts but it should be more than that considering the book is for a 5" barrel, not the 6".

[BEEMER!]

Thanks for the reply.  My main concern is doing damage to the gun and not the distance the brass is thrown.

I have a 6" R1 also.  I kind of forgot about it since I got the Baer and have been out of the shooting scene for a while.  I got the Remington out to check what system they are using.  Again, it is a full length spring but it has a full length guide rod and the spring is flat wound.  I do not know what the poundage is but I will check it this week.

My R1 already has a flat base firing pin stop.  To be honest, I had not checked that out before as I have only shot the Remington a couple of times with mild ammo.  The brass still flew quite a ways. 

I know what main spring you are using now but what recoil setup did you finally settle on?  Did you leave it stock?

Any comments would be appreciated.  I just think that the stock spring that Baer uses at 16.5# is not appropriate but maybe I'm wrong.

The slide, barrel, bushing, and recoil assembly on the Remington weighs in at 22.6 oz.

[sqlbullet]

My thoughts....If I had paid a Les Baer price for a 1911, I would call them and expect them to defend every decision they made about the build, including the recoil spring strength.

So, being blunt, and not intending any offense at all, have you called them and did they have any commentary on this matter?

[BEEMER!]

Your bluntness is appreciated.

The call is on my agenda.  I am trying to get a little more background info beforehand as I do not know how much  the extra weight of the longslide changes the dynamics of the function.

I like the idea of the full length spring better than using 5" springs and the long plugs but maybe it makes no difference.  I am finding 6" springs calibrated for poundage hard to find.

I don't know if you have had any dealings with Les Baer but his shop is in the same Metro area as I live and I have had some contact with him through my involvement with the Friends of NRA.  He is an extremely hard guy to deal with in person or on the phone.

By the way, I won a 5" LBC 10mm at a FNRA Event and I traded up to get this 6".

***Added Later***

I called up to LBC and Les was gone so I talked to Brenda who is who I deal with on FNRA business.  She has been there for ever and know quite a bit about the business.

She confirmed that for all their longslides they are using the Wolff springs and cut them down to where they need to be for their guns.  They use the #5's for 9mm, #3 for the 45 acp's, and #1's for the 10mm's.  She does not know what the poundage is but they work fine in all their guns.

I have ordered a flat base firing pin stop and I plan on cutting down on of the #1 springs I bought from Wolff to about 19# and give it another go.

[Trapper6L]

The Remington R1 I have now has the heaviest recoil spring that Wolff makes cut to the longest that the slide allows. Per Wolff, there is no poundage that they will put on the spring. Maybe you got more out of them than I did but the spring is supposed to be the heaviest and it's as long as possible and have the gun function. Like I say, once you see how to fit it, it's really a no brainer. The hammer spring is Wolff and I went with the 25lb. Previously, I was seeing the blueing wearing on the rear of the frame. The gun was typical 10mm in that most folks would not be comfortable shooting it due to violent recoil. Doesn't bother me as I'm accustomed to hand cannons. Try a 375 Winchester pistol sometime or a custom 460 cut down and blown out to accept a 750gr 50 caliber. Now that's an ugly round to shoot. But after my spring changes, those that have shot the gun are impressed as they always thought the 10mm was a heavy recoiling pistol. It's a completely different gun with the changes. Honest up, the gun recoils like a 9mm with heavy loads. The downside, most women are not going to be able to rack the slide- it's real stiff. Just to make it easy on me I cock the gun first and then rack the slide. But in regards to the wear on the frame. I cold blued the wear spot so I had an indicator to watch and so far it's still like new.

[BEEMER!]

Thanks again Trapper. 

Like I said before, I have the #1 Wolf springs.   I cut  one to the max length and the spring pulled 22#.  It is really long and I have not attempted to install it yet as I have been waiting on the new firing pin stop.

[sqlbullet]

Thanks for the update an I totally get it.  I like to do my research before I start talking to folks too.

[BEEMER!]

Thanks for the update an I totally get it.  I like to do my research before I start talking to folks too.

Brenda at LBC is fairly informed and good to deal with although here explanation to me was inadequate as far as I was concerned.

I have not had any problems with the gun so if I talked to Les I am sure he would just tell me to "Shoot the SOB!".

Les says that all their guns have between 100 and 150 rounds fired through them before they are shipped.