Help design a test to explore the hard barrier penetration of expanded bullets

[LoadedToFullPotato]

I have been binge watching lots of tests of 10mm. Nearly all of them start with denim or hard barrier and end in gel. I would like to discuss about a design that tests the penetration ability of bullets AFTER passing thru soft media. For example, how much hard barrier can an already expanded gold dot defeat after passing thru 12 inches of ballistic gel?

The test design must be easily replicated by everyone. So no bone sim plates. Maybe readily available 2x4.

1.5in deep 2x4 --> 12in ballistic gel --> 1.5in deep 2x4 --> ballistic gel or water jugs

12 inches should simulate the shoulder width of a decent size pig. And hopefully the 2x4 would be sufficient in simulating bone (not sure about this). This will answer several questions about effectiness of both JHP and HC on the "second half" of the animal. Also most serious hunting loads should be able to penetrate 16+ inches of ballistic gel and should be able to complete this at least in part.

  Any thoughts?

[CurtisM]

Why not check with a butcher for bones that they have trimmed out of either a cut of pork or beef?  You would want bones that are fresh and not dried out.

[LoadedToFullPotato]

I'm not sure how easily and consistently obtainable that is since most real bone tests I've seen are pre packaged meat.  It's difficult to replicate similar strike angle shot to shot. But yea bone will be awesome if it can be consistent shot to shot.

I think it would be ok if the barrier is *slightly* more challenging than bone.

[sqlbullet]

...bone will be awesome if it can be consistent shot to shot.

I think it would be ok if the barrier is *slightly* more challenging than bone.

Consistent behavior in the test medium is WAY more important that matching real world tissue.  Bone also behaves in ways that don't translate well to lots this kinds of testing.  For instance, a cubic inch of bone can support 19,000 lbs, which is about 4 times the strength of the concrete used in your driveway.  But, unlike concrete it doesn't crumble.  It might crack, or it might splinter depending on a wide variety of factors, like age, hydration, physical activity level, dietary conditions past and present, etc.

This variables are much less when considering clothing and soft tissue.  And this was a driving factor in the development of the FBI protocol.  Bone was not omitted out of ignorance, but rather on purpose as introducing bone or a bone simulation would scatter results in such a way as to make the tests meaningless.

I am not saying we shouldn't try.  Coming up with a good simulation would be great.  Just saying anyone setting out on the attempt has several months of studying the reasons behind the FBI protocol before they begin.  And that assumes they already have years of experience in laboratory test protocol and statistical analysis procedure.

[The_Shadow]

Well this is where I would see a cast bullet perform well...  You can get a block of gel cut it to 12" even and use a piece of 2 by the size of the block say 6" x 6" or 8" x 8" as your back side cover and then the remaining piece of block behind the wooden barrier.
I understand that you are looking for retained energy and or penetration after passing through and expansion through 12" of gelatin.  It would be a good test.

You can also back that up by water jugs to insure capture of the projectiles...

Maybe Raggedy Man (Choppin Block) could do this type test some day.

[LoadedToFullPotato]

Yes definitely! I am super curious as to the various HC designs and what kind of retained energy is left after slight deformations from the initial impact. I read up a bit on brassfetcher website about this product called synbone. They come in generic shapes that allow consistent hits shot to shot.

Is there however something that is more readily available that is roughly equivalent to bone?

[Olgo]

Hardened criminals?