Good evening guys.  This is my first post here, and while I'm new to the forum, I'm not completely lost around guns or ammo either. 

But, I have a few questions that I'm wanting settled in my mind since I have no experience hunting with 10mm and I'm leaning on your experience(s).

I chose to get a 16" carbine for a few reasons, but the biggest being that I can't find a 357 lever action around here at a decent price.  I have hunted with 357 in both 6" revolver and 16" single shot, but I was wanting this 10mm carbine because it's semiauto and has the capability to hold 10 rounds (per my max hunting regs).

And I know the carbine loaded with slower burning powders can squeeze an extra few hundred fps out of the numbers that a 5" barrled handgun can do.

I would mostly be hunting whitetail and maybe some wild hog.  My shot distances are typically less than 70 yards.  And often half of that.

I live in the Appalachian mountains so a lot of hills and undergrowth and brush.   I hunt from a blind or a stand or am not against a stalk either if I have to but generally a blind or tree stand.

For times I'm not hunting but camping, we have a lot of 400-600lb bear.  Coyotes.  Big cats and starting to see and hear a few wolves too. 

There are some elk as well, but I doubt I'd even consider a pistol cal for elk.  But, I'll throw that out there anyway.

I'm wondering whether to just mainly stick with hardcast from 180-200 gr. (unless a 220 is worth the extra squeeze?)

Even for whitetail hunting, I prefer a complete pass through so if I have to track one, makes it easier.  I've tracked and lost a deer where I believe the entrance wound sealed up and bled out in the chest cavity before, and while I'm sure a fmj or soft HP will kill a deer, I'm somewhat doubtful a HP @ 60 yards would get a double lung pass through.  I may be wrong, because I'm completely new and ignorant to what it'll do and what it won't, but I have shot a few with 158 gr 357 soft point HP's that I found the bullet just under the hide on the far side so I am skeptical that the 10mm would be much different.

So, if I'm wrong, I'm interested in learning now while I'm waiting on some of the parts to build it.

Another reason for just shooting hardcast (probably powder coated hardcast to try to keep the leading down a little) would be because I could just zero my gun and stick with whatever load I am able to come up with that I like.

I'd likely just shoot jacketed 180's for plinking and playing around with.

I'll be asking more in the reloading section about that, but was curious whether to start off with round nose hardcast, wadcutter or flat point to get the best penetration.

Thanks in advance for the suggestions and advice.

For penetration I would choose a 180 or 200 grain WFN or SWC design.  I would stuff the case full of AA#9 and crimp the hell out of it.  I have personally tested a 200 grain WFN at 1200 fps through eleven gallon milk jugs and it kept going.  It was eleven jugs as that is all I could fit front to back on a 6' table.

I would cast the bullets out of air cooled wheel weight mixed about 50/50 with pure lead to bring the hardness down some.  This will allow some natural expansion of the bullet.  I would be shooting for a BHN of 9.5-10 if you have a way to test such things.  Commercial hardcast bullets will be too hard IMHO.

Edit to add...If best velocity from a 16" is your goal, stick with 180 grain.  You aren't going to get much velocity gain from the extra 10" when using 200 grain bullets - maybe 50 fps.  Too little usable starting case capacity with a 200 grain bullet.  A 180 will gain about 250 fps in those 10".

Thank you very much for the reply.  That is very useful info, and makes perfect sense, from a reloading standpoint.  That extra 20 gr of lead will eat up some of the room for powder, with minimum gain in ft lb on target.

I was also thinking a flat tip or wadcutter would likely be able to dig deeper into the target as well.  I notice that the majority of 40 cal are flat tip as well.

So, again, thank you for the reply.

I'll start out with 175 or 180.  I have a bunch of wheel weight ingots, but no .401" mold at the moment.  So, I'll probably get a mix of commercial cast boolets to load up to make sure it'll feed the wadcutters first before buying a mold.  I'm seeing some down as little as $12/100 which would be a decent place to start.

Finding new brass is a problem at the moment.  Seeing some once fired listed, but once fired out of what??  I'm a little nervous about that for this caliber to be honest.  I have a ton of once fired for other calibers, but I don't want to pay for 100 piece of brass and only get to use 65 of them because of bulges either.

Hey John, Unless Starline has them available, check with Dillon Precision. If they are out of stock, you can still order them now, getting them on their next shipment for something like $21.00 per 100


https://www.dillonprecision.com/starline-brass-10mm_8_109_25361.html

Yeah, starline (and everyone else that I would normally buy reloading stuff) is showing out of stock.

Didn't think to check at dillon website, but I will.  Thanks.

OOS @ dillon too.

I'd even settle for prvi or armscor or even winchester if I could find some.

Good evening guys.  I hope all is well with y'all.

I was able to shoot the gun for the first time today and am pretty excited about it.

I was getting a little over 1400 fps with 180 gr and my best loads with 155 gr was over 1750 fps average.

So, that has me wondering a lot.

I started out thinking to use the heaviest loads that I could until you guys mentioned I could do better with 180's over 200 and 220's and after the explanation(s), made perfect sense. 

But, now after seeing that the 155 gr pills have over 1070 ft lbs of energy, which was 200+ ft lbs more than 180 gr,   is there a reason that with a hard cast bullet with the 155 couldn't be a show stopper for whitetail with that loading?

That's even just a smidge faster than 158gr 357 magnums in a 16" barrel.  And they've always done well.

I think I'd prefer to avoid expanding bullets and lean towards a complete pass through for deer.

So, I'm leaning on any of your experiences and thoughts.

Thanks again, in advance.

I?ve been hunting with a 16? carbine for a few years on Texas hogs.  My first setup used 180gr XTP bullets at 1505 fps.   They will keel!
As of late, I?ve been casting my own and use a 175 gr TC which is powder coated and right at 179gr.   They are 1600 fps.   They, too will keel!

My longest shot was @120 yards with red dot sight on a boar hog shot top of the shoulder using the lead boolit.  He was @ 150 lbs.  Dropped in his tracks.

Thank each of you for your reply.

Rvrrat14, If you don't mind me asking, what mold and load data are you using for the cast 170's?

That sounds like a winning combination.

Don?t be scared to use an expanding bullet if well constructed. I?ve used 200 grain XTP bullets in my Glock 20 long slide and have pass throughs. I?ve also used 220 grain hard cast and of course had pass through. The difference is the XTP produced a better blood trail.


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Thank you very much.  That is reassuring and does correlate with much of what I have been reading.

I've seen a lot of videos, which is where most of what little I know about 10mm comes from, but I'm learning a lot here too. 

I truly appreciate first hand experience.

I've hunted a lot, and the only deer I ever lost was with an expanding bullet and I only found 4 drops of blood where it looked like it stumbled and landed because the entrance wound sealed up and there was no exit.  So, needless to say, that left a bad taste in my mouth that I prefer not to repeat.

I'm sure the deer died from the way he was moving in the last place I saw it and I'm 100% positive it was a good shot.  But, once it crossed the property boundary, there was no hope in recovering it because that's where the states largest animal preserve is.

So, needless to say, I don't want a repeat of that because it made me sick to my stomach to shoot something and not put it down quickly or humanely.

So, that's why, if I use a pistol caliber, I want it to do it's job. 

I still own a 357 6" revolver and a 16" single shot, which has done pretty good when I was growing up and from what I can tell, the 40 is at least as good or even maybe better in some respects.

Owned a 44 dragoon once and it would've done well too, but was just too heavy to carry all the time for what it was so I didn't keep it long enough to hunt with it.

So, that's pretty much my only experience in using a pistol caliber for deer hunting is with 357's mainly and what initially got me looking at the 40 carbines.

Truth be told, the last 2 or 3 deer I have taken, were with a crossbow and I've not had one run but maybe 20 yards at the most before piling up.

So, that's where most of my concern comes from about using an expanding bullet that doesn't even make it through to the other side on a close shot, just doesn't do a lot to instill a lot of confidence for me and where my main hold up is.

Hey John, Most of my whitetail hunting with a 10 mm has been from a ground blind, and have been relatively close. I would like to try my Hi Point 1095TS 10mm Carbine, and would give me the option for a longer shot. I have been pretty impressed with the High Point, considering how inexpensive it was, and now with the Holosun optic, it could be a formidable deer hunting weapon

I agree.  And my big draw towards a carbine.

I've been considering one of the VISM solar powered red dots for this gun.  I've seen them listed around $100.

I have an older tasco solar power red dots on my crossbow and soon as it cracks day (barely), the dot illuminates.  No worry of the optic failing because the battery is dead (which would ruin a hunting trip). The only time you need batteries is at night if you were hog hunting or something.

I'm a slow bloomer when it comes to electronic sights on my hunting guns.  I have always used irons or low powered 1-5x traditional hunting scopes.  Most of my defensive guns also have low powered magnification as well.

But, the solar powered red dot has grown on me enough that I believe I want another now. 

The tasco's are discontinued and were really only meant for 22's with a dovetail mount, but I was able to get a dovetail/picatinny adapter and have used it the last 2 seasons on the crossbow with good success.  It's held zero and just flat out works.

I generally hunt out of a ground blind or very occasionally a tree stand.  My shots are pretty close ~50 yards or often less.  And why I started down the 10mm rabbit hole.

Quote from: John A. on April 09 2022 07:19:43 AM MDT
Thank each of you for your reply.

Rvrrat14, If you don't mind me asking, what mold and load data are you using for the cast 170's?

That sounds like a winning combination.

Lee 401-175-TC / 6 cavity.  Bullets are Powder Coated. 
I worked up the load using 1.245? COAL and #9 powder.   
Loads are safe in my pistol and carbine. Work all loads up. 
These are within SAAMI per Accurate Load Data.
It liked the warmer ones best. 
12.4, 12.7, 13.0, 13.3, 13.6.   

On a hog, POI is CNS for a drop dead shot with little to no trailing. 

Quote from: John A. on April 09 2022 09:42:44 AM MDT
Thank you very much.  That is reassuring and does correlate with much of what I have been reading.

I've seen a lot of videos, which is where most of what little I know about 10mm comes from, but I'm learning a lot here too. 

I truly appreciate first hand experience.

I've hunted a lot, and the only deer I ever lost was with an expanding bullet and I only found 4 drops of blood where it looked like it stumbled and landed because the entrance wound sealed up and there was no exit.  So, needless to say, that left a bad taste in my mouth that I prefer not to repeat.

I'm sure the deer died from the way he was moving in the last place I saw it and I'm 100% positive it was a good shot.  But, once it crossed the property boundary, there was no hope in recovering it because that's where the states largest animal preserve is.

So, needless to say, I don't want a repeat of that because it made me sick to my stomach to shoot something and not put it down quickly or humanely.

So, that's why, if I use a pistol caliber, I want it to do it's job. 

I still own a 357 6" revolver and a 16" single shot, which has done pretty good when I was growing up and from what I can tell, the 40 is at least as good or even maybe better in some respects.

Owned a 44 dragoon once and it would've done well too, but was just too heavy to carry all the time for what it was so I didn't keep it long enough to hunt with it.

So, that's pretty much my only experience in using a pistol caliber for deer hunting is with 357's mainly and what initially got me looking at the 40 carbines.

Truth be told, the last 2 or 3 deer I have taken, were with a crossbow and I've not had one run but maybe 20 yards at the most before piling up.

So, that's where most of my concern comes from about using an expanding bullet that doesn't even make it through to the other side on a close shot, just doesn't do a lot to instill a lot of confidence for me and where my main hold up is.

Swift also recently introduced 180 and 200 grain A-Frame bullets which should do very well.


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