Quote from: REDLINE on September 23 2017 06:27:23 AM MDT
Just and observation;  I think Underwood has abandoned IMR 800-X powder and maybe Longshot Powder too in the 10mm.  If so, those 10mm loads by Underwood should be moved to the "Discontinued" tab in the Master Sheet.

What bullet type and weight used those powders?  And what are the differences in velocities for those bullet types/weights with the replacement powders?

Underwood has been using the rebranded LOVEX powders as sold by Shooters World and may have dropped the velocity some, I can see why those with the other powders could be considered discontinued.  However it might be possible Underwood may actually load some lots with those powders again...  We never know what will happen with regards to imported powders. 

About when did the change occur?

Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on September 23 2017 07:20:50 AM MDTWhat bullet type and weight used those powders?  And what are the differences in velocities for those bullet types/weights with the replacement powders?

I wish we had all the answers.  One thing we know is that what put Underwood on the map was in the beginning he loaded all his 10mm ammo with IMR 800-X powder at max pressures, and possibly beyond, and all velocities from all loads surpassed box flap claims.  It was a hay-day for the 10mm crowd!  But then there was the occasional Case Failure/Ka-BOOM with said ammo, and while it didn't seem Underwood made any changes overnight, IIRC the first thing they did was to add a watered down Colt Delta Elite 10mm load to their lineup (which has since been discontinued) and later over time began experimenting with different powders.

To date we know Underwood has/does use: IMR 800-X, Hodgdon Longshot, Alliant Power Pistol, Ramshot Silhouette, and Lovex D037.1 powders.  I suspect Underwood is now only using Lovex and Silhouette, but don't quote me on that, and most probably (in some cases we know for a fact) lowered velocities across the board (that don't meet all box flap claims anymore).  As an unrelated side note Underwood's prices have gone up over time but are still a relative bargain for 10mm Auto, and they have ceased offering premium bullet loads in 50 round boxes in favor of 20 round boxes while the plinking loads can still be had in 50 round boxes.

What I wish is that I had the money to buy a fresh box of everything in 10mm, from at least all of; Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, and others.  Then take it all apart, and see what's what, all at the same time, currently.

I haven't done an exhaustive search related to your questions but you can glean some info hear in Intercooler's Master List at the beginning of this thread and the 10mm Pull Down Data spreadsheet sqlbullet created from The_Shadow's work stickied in the Factory 10mm Ammo pull-downs subforum.  How much is current on YouTube to represent the Lovex powder Underwood is using, I don't know and just don't have time to research the heck out of right now.

No doubt not everything about 10mm ammunition is the same as in some years back that the average 10mm shooter still thinks applies today.  It would be great to compare all fresh and current 10mm loads again now.

I actually have a bunch of the original Underwood 10mm loads from when it was all Nuclear loads of IMR 800-X powder.  8 different ones to be exact.

I wonder why 800-X was the craze for a while and now nobody loads with it? Did they change it or discontinue?

Quote from: Intercooler on December 11 2017 03:06:55 AM MST
I wonder why 800-X was the craze for a while and now nobody loads with it? Did they change it or discontinue?

Other powders meet the performance profile but meter much better.  Longshot comes to mind. In fact, Longshot exceeds 800X performance in published data, but also takes a bit (8-10%) more powder.  Perhaps early on the boutique loaders where trying to meet performance at a reduced cost.  Issues with metering probably showed that to be a false economy.

My 2¢

Any data on the basement products? S&B and Magtech? Great stuff for shooting steel at the range. Magtech claims 1160 fps. Wondering how accurate that is. I know that it gives my steel targets a good thump.

Nobody? 

Quote from: terdog on November 30 2018 09:46:01 AM MSTAny data on the basement products? S&B and Magtech? Great stuff for shooting steel at the range. Magtech claims 1160 fps. Wondering how accurate that is. I know that it gives my steel targets a good thump.

Numerous basement products are listed in Intercooler's links in the first post of this thread including S&B.  Maybe you didn't notice the links?  No Magtech 10mm has been chronographed by anyone yet to my knowledge, at least at 10mm-firearms.com.  If you get a chronograph please fill us in.

Accuracy? What accuracy are you looking for?  Compared to what?  At what distance? From what platform?  It would be surprising if it wasn't capable of hitting steel at the range consistently from practically any platform unless it is below subpar.  Not many specific accuracy results have ever been posted, but more so generalities when they are.

Thanks for your response REDLINE.
Sorry, but I guess that I'm having trouble finding S&B. I saw PMC & BLAZER (BLASER?)

I think that you misread my "accuracy" question. I was asking how accurate the 1160 fps claim is for S&B/MAGTECH.
MAGTECH is consistently the least expensive 10mm that I can find. One would expect it to be 'weak" based on its cost.

Quote from: terdog on January 24 2019 08:12:53 AM MST
Thanks for your response REDLINE.
Sorry, but I guess that I'm having trouble finding S&B. I saw PMC & BLAZER (BLASER?)

I think that you misread my "accuracy" question. I was asking how accurate the 1160 fps claim is for S&B/MAGTECH.
MAGTECH is consistently the least expensive 10mm that I can find. One would expect it to be 'weak" based on its cost.

LOL, you are correct, in your 1st post I took "that" to mean the ammo in general as opposed to the velocity claims. My bad.

You will find Sellier & Bellot in the 1st google doc Intercooler listed here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gex6ItGeWQunVZR9B14mseacyEGoreRRrBEXZavfciM/edit#gid=13, under the tab/page "170gr-180gr", on lines 51 & 52 showing both the JHP and FMJ loads.

I know it would take a lot of work to research what's what, but it would be nice if the loads that don't exist anymore were either highlighted or whatever to differentiate between loads that currently exist.

Some of the discontinued offerings were moved to the last tab "Discontinued". I can research and move some of the others over. It's been a while since I really went into the sheets

One easy way to weed out some is that nobody is using 800X powder anymore so any of those can be moved to the discontinued section.

One of the best things about handloading is you know what you are loading with and how much!