I purchased a Les Baer 6" 10mm Premier II  pistol for myself.  Because of a loved one having cancer, my shooting was put on hold for a long time.  I had the pistol at my Gunsmiths and had him install a Kart NM barrel and had him chamber it for 9X25.  The gun shoots excellent for the small amount of times I have shot it.

The brass is being thrown about 25 or more feet so I figured I would need to respring it.  Les Baer is using the Wollf - #1 longslide spring clipped to 42 coils.  This pulls 16# on both my and my Gunsmith's testers.  I purchased another #1 spring from Wollf and cut it to the maximum length for my pistol and it tests at 22#.  I added a flat bottom firing pin stop as advised here and I have not shot it yet.

I have a 6" long slide Remington 10mm Hunter and it throws brass a mile also.  It has a 1/4" full length guide rod and a stock flat wound spring.  Neither my tester or my Gunsmith's were set up to measure the springs with that small of an ID so today I made a smaller rod for my tester and checked the Remington spring.  It pulls 14# is all.

I have a Custom Gun I had purchased in 9X25 also.  It is a really nicely made pistol using a Caspian frame and a Colt Delta slide.  The Dealer I bought it from was selling it for the Widow of the owner and she told him that Wayne Novak built it for him but I have no proof of that.  The spring that came with it tested at 13#.

For the Custom 9X25 I bought one of these from EGW.

   https://www.egwguns.com/government-guide-rod-kit-w-ss-spring-plug-45acp-20-government-spring-10506

I decided to test the spring which has never been shot or even out of the bag and it pulls 14#.  I do not have a test weight but I have compared my gauge and my Gunsmith's and they agree.  I guess I am going to have to find a 20# weight somewhere but to be honest, I think our gauges are correct.

What are you guys running into with springs?

The Wollf springs I have tested are usually stronger that marked but very close.

Remington R1 10mm Hunter 6". I think this pistol is the King of throwing brass. As a newby to 10mm, I didn't think much about the violent recoil of the gun when I first got it. I just assumed it came with the large case and heavy bullets. I changed my recoil spring to the Wolff that you cut. It's at maximum length for the pistol so I have no clue what it is. At the same time, I changed out to a flat bottom firing pin stop and I changed to the hammer spring to a 25lbs. Most women will not be able to rack the slide on it as it's stout. Obviously it's a lot easier by pulling the hammer to firing position and then rack the slide but I generally don't. I also installed a Wilson recoil buffer. A couple of things happened. I was getting wear on the blue of the frame at the rear. I'm assuming that slide velocity was too high causing it. I touched it up with some cold blue to track it and that issue is gone as the cold blue looks like the day I put it on. The ejection of brass to the next county still happens with my normal max loads of 12.8gr 2400 under a 180gr bullet. But I also shoot coated bullets that are plinkers and I don't have to chase brass very far now. The #1 thing that it did for me was something I didn't expect. It pretty much took a ton of recoil out of the gun. It's no longer a violent recoil and easily controllable.  It didn't change anything with the trigger pull or function- still clean and crisp and about 4lbs. Accuracy with my loads from bags is under an inch now. I also unloaded that plastic crap they called an optic front sight and put a Fusion solid front sight on it. So now the sight picture is the same as any of my full target pistols. Overall, I happy with how it's working now. I've had a few good shooters run a mag or two thru it and they all loved it enough to make me a money offer. At age 73, money doesn't have the importance it once did. I'll keep my R1 and keep it just like it is. That's been my experience with the R1 and springs/firing pin stop.

My Remington R1 came with a flat firing pin stop.  I knew the spring was not real strong but 14#, I was shocked.

How much trouble do you have getting that long #1 spring back in the gun?

When I bought the EGW guide rod setup I expected a 20# spring, 14# is not even close.  I just did the checking this morning and I am going to give them a call about it.

The EGW setup looks like what Ruger is using in the 10mm's.  Has anyone checked the stock springs from the Rugers?

QuoteHow much trouble do you have getting that long #1 spring back in the gun?

In my opinion, not much trouble at all. However, the wife claims that when I do, it looks like 2 greased monkeys trying to have sex with a beachball. Not sure about her sometimes.

I thought my R1 came with a flat firing pin stop but found out it wasn't. The bottom has a curve on it. The Wilson I bought is flat.

Quote from: Trapper6L on March 06 2020 01:35:11 PM MST

QuoteHow much trouble do you have getting that long #1 spring back in the gun?

In my opinion, not much trouble at all. However, the wife claims that when I do, it looks like 2 greased monkeys trying to have sex with a beachball. Not sure about her sometimes.

I thought my R1 came with a flat firing pin stop but found out it wasn't. The bottom has a curve on it. The Wilson I bought is flat.

I will be 71 this month and have arthritic hands and I have a hell of a time.  Last time I went down to my Gunsmith and had him do it.  He said that was the toughest spring he had ever put in.

Bob, I'm running my S&W 1006 with a Wolff 22lbs spring for the 9x25 and brass drops about 4'-6' mostly.
The G-20 using the 6.02" LWD barrel, the non captive Wolff recoil rod and 22 lbs spring the brass drops 3'-5'
The G-29 using the 3.78" LWD barrel with the Wolff non captive dual rod and 21 lbs spring set also drops 3'-5'

The recoil impulse of the 9x25 is different from the actual 10mm ammo.

Thanks Wade.

My biggest point for this thread is the big disparity in what the gun makers are using for springs.

Les Baer says the spring that he is installing is what he says that testing has proven to be what is needed in his 6" 10mm's.  He tests with Hornady factory ammo.  The spring he is using is a Wolff #1 clipped to 42 coils and pulls to 16#.

Remington is using a 14# spring in their 6" Hunter.

Both of these do not even appear to be totally adequate for even moderate ammo.

I just checked the springs in a new Colt Delta Elite I have.  It uses a double nested spring.  The outer spring looks like a standard recoil spring for a 5" 1911.  It pulls 14# by itself.  The inner spring is shorter and just touches the bushing when the gun is in battery.  It pulls to 9#.  This corresponds to what Wolff says.  Wolff substitutes a single spring at 23#

This seems to be a pretty good system to me.

Can anyone tell me what Ruger is running in their SR1911 10mm.  It looks like what EGW sold me and pulls at 14#.

I called EGW this morning and told them about their 20# spring testing at 14#.  He acted like that was not too unusual and agreed to send a new one out.  Nice guy to talk to.

I asked if they ever check their incoming shipments and he said they do not even have a gauge and he thought maybe he would look into getting one.

I got the new spring from EGW today and it pulls at 15.5# to 16#, not the 20 in the catalog cut shown below.

  https://www.egwguns.com/government-guide-rod-kit-w-ss-spring-plug-45acp-20-government-spring-10506

That brings up the question:

Where do you measure the rating at?

I always pull the 1911 spring to the 1.625" point which is the collapsed length of a 5" barreled 1911.

Is this correct or do you pull until the spring is at complete solid?

Using industry standards, neither.   

A spring rating is usually in force/distance.  For those of us in the USA that standard is lb_f/inch.  I have always assumed that the spring "lb" ratings on gun springs were really lb_f/inch.  Based on your testing, I see now that I was almost certainly wrong.

As you correctly identify, the spring tension increases as it is compressed.  The industrty standard for compression spring rating is a "constant force" over distance, which a spring doesn't produce.  The accepted way to test the constant force over distance is to measure the force at max travel divide it by the distance traveled.

Based on what you are saying, I would surmise that the actual proper spring rating of that spring is 7.94 lb_f/inch.  This assumes a governement model 1911 with a 4" guide rod, a guide rod foot offset of .175" and a plug offset of .187", which is what the EGW on my desk measures.  This gives a total travel distance of 2.013".  Dividing 16 lbs by this value provides 7.92 lb_f/inch constant spring force.

I also am of the opinion that is probably NOT how gun spring makers rate their springs.  Using this industry accepted method means a springs rating can only be known AFTER it's operating environment is defined.  A spring that rates 7.94 lb_f/inch in a 1911 would rate less or more in a different platform with different slide travel parameters.

I think it is likely they rate them fully compressed.  That added force needed to compress the spring down to probably the 1.250" of full compression probably will make up the missing 4 lbs.  But the value is not properly a spring compression rate using the industry standard.

Thanks sqlbullet for the reply.

I am talking strictly about 1911 springs here.  The guy I talked to at EGW has never tested a spring and wondered what the gauge looked like to do it.

The round wire 1911 springs I have used and tested in the past have all been Wolff.  They always test at the marked poundage or a little over at the 1.625" compressed length.  I mean that they have all been very, very close to marked poundage at the length and that is what I expected here.

I have never tested flat wire springs before as my gauge did not have a rod small enough.  I was messing with the Remington R1 10mm last week so I finally made one for that pistol and decided to see what the EGW setup pulled as it was with all my spring junk.  The flat wire spring's fully collapsed length is a lot shorter than the round wire's for obvious reasons.

Wilson lists flat wire springs all the way up to 24# on there website so I am going to talk to them.

I am pursuing this because with my arthritic hands I have trouble with 22 & 24# springs and the flat wire with full length guide rod system takes care of that for me.