Bought a cmmg Banshee in 10mm. Thus far I love it, but I'm getting brass bulges unlike any other 10mm I've shot.

Spent brass sometimes looks like a pear. Exaggeration...but the expansion at the case head can be dramatic. 

Some of my reloads are really impressive, but I'll stick to factory brass to reduce confusion.

Federal Premium 180 grain Trophy Bonded, factory new:
4,800 MSL
36 degrees Farahenite
Average velocity 1,407 from the 8" Banshee barrel.
Largest case bulge: .4390

I run every case I shoot through a Lee Bulge Buster prior to reloading, and even with the cases that don't want to go through after being fired, I can't actually see any deformation. The cases from the Banshee...I can see the distortion before I even bend down to pick them up. They look like a belted magnum.

This is not a "Glock bulge" where it only occurs at the unsupported portion of the chamber, but a consistent "ring" around the base of the spent brass.

I just don't know what to make of it. Some of my reloads bulge out to .4655". Granted they're reloads in mixed brass loaded to book-max, but WOW...that's a lot of bulge!

The same batch of Federal Trophy Bonded showed ZERO case bulge out of my KKM barrel in a Glock 20, so I don't think it's a hot batch of ammo.

Any ideas?

Sounds excessive bulges IMO... and that's from a G20 ( which is known to be loose ) reloader that sometimes goes max...reloads bulge out to .4655

Usu I don't get more than .433  in any loadings and .434 is my cut off  ( from past info here )
Honestly only see the .434 when copying some of the Buffalo bore's loadings which are hot.

Have you measured the chamber ? .. is it just looser then normal ?

Might be a timing problem. Action could be opening before the pressure drops enough. I've seen a few reports of 10mm AR attempts that sheared their brass and left the top half of the case in the chamber.

This has been covered on other boards. Here's the CMMG official response:

CMMG recognizes that the chamber lead and chamber in the Mk10 result in a less than 100% fully supported casing. Handguns do not have the same lead or chamber design due to the short distance and the way the round chambers with the barrels tipping/moving to assist, yet many 10mm handguns have unsupported cases also. The Mk10 chamber and lead were designed in a way to provide the most reliable feeding behavior while maintaining safe operation with properly loaded 10mm ammunition. The chamber and leads used to manufacture the Mk10 are similar to those we use on the 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP. With these calibers we do not see any bulging with any factory offerings of +P or below ammunition. Unfortunately, 10mm was designed in a way that pressures generated by max loads cannot be well contained in an unsupported chamber, resulting in case swelling and the inability to reload cases with certain combinations. Not every 10mm case is the same. SAAMI only defines the external dimensions of cases, which leads to varying wall thicknesses and strength. We've measured as much as a 25% difference in wall thickness between manufacturers.

CMMG has fired tens of thousands of rounds through our durability testing and found no safety concerns from the case swelling. During our function and reliability testing, which tests feeding, extraction, ejection, and durability, we tested a wide variety of ammunition. We found that when the Power Factor > 230, using 180gr bullets, the greater the likelihood the casing will show visible signs of "bulging". CMMG concluded that the firearm was still safe, as it is designed to function and contain the pressures of properly loaded 10mm ammunition safely. CMMG does not recommend continuing to shoot ammunition that shows multiple signs of overpressure.  If you are seeing extreme case swelling and any other common sign of overpressure, such as ejector swipes, blown primers, split cases, etc., discontinue using that ammunition and test another load or brand. CMMG stands behinds its products and is confident in our design of safe and functional firearms. In this case, we have found the inherent design of the 10mm cartridge produces some tradeoffs when it comes to the ability to reuse and reload cases. Once again, we would like to thank you for your business and hopefully this brief explanation might help you better understand our position on this particular situation.

Quote from: PointBlank82 on February 17 2020 05:13:10 PM MST
This has been covered on other boards. Here's the CMMG official response:

CMMG recognizes that the chamber lead and chamber in the Mk10 result in a less than 100% fully supported casing. Handguns do not have the same lead or chamber design due to the short distance and the way the round chambers with the barrels tipping/moving to assist, yet many 10mm handguns have unsupported cases also. The Mk10 chamber and lead were designed in a way to provide the most reliable feeding behavior while maintaining safe operation with properly loaded 10mm ammunition. The chamber and leads used to manufacture the Mk10 are similar to those we use on the 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP. With these calibers we do not see any bulging with any factory offerings of +P or below ammunition. Unfortunately, 10mm was designed in a way that pressures generated by max loads cannot be well contained in an unsupported chamber, resulting in case swelling and the inability to reload cases with certain combinations. Not every 10mm case is the same. SAAMI only defines the external dimensions of cases, which leads to varying wall thicknesses and strength. We've measured as much as a 25% difference in wall thickness between manufacturers.

CMMG has fired tens of thousands of rounds through our durability testing and found no safety concerns from the case swelling. During our function and reliability testing, which tests feeding, extraction, ejection, and durability, we tested a wide variety of ammunition. We found that when the Power Factor > 230, using 180gr bullets, the greater the likelihood the casing will show visible signs of "bulging". CMMG concluded that the firearm was still safe, as it is designed to function and contain the pressures of properly loaded 10mm ammunition safely. CMMG does not recommend continuing to shoot ammunition that shows multiple signs of overpressure.  If you are seeing extreme case swelling and any other common sign of overpressure, such as ejector swipes, blown primers, split cases, etc., discontinue using that ammunition and test another load or brand. CMMG stands behinds its products and is confident in our design of safe and functional firearms. In this case, we have found the inherent design of the 10mm cartridge produces some tradeoffs when it comes to the ability to reuse and reload cases. Once again, we would like to thank you for your business and hopefully this brief explanation might help you better understand our position on this particular situation.

I was really looking forward to buying one of these, but looks like I'll be sticking with my MechTech for now.

I started to write a reply to this twice last night and stopped as I thought it wouldn't pertain to OP's question/concerns.. that seems to have been addressed.

Now I have several 10mm pistols and I just finished a Carbine as a Valentine's Day gift to myself. It's still in the T&E phases and I will make a detailed post about the build and my experiences when I gather more data. I handload and absolutely Love messing around with everything the 10 has to offer. I've only got a chance to bring it out twice in the last few days.. tomorrow if we get rained out at work will be a third.

I tried some of my hot hand loads that run in my over sprung (34# mainspring) compensated beast of a test bed 1911 after running through initial tests/barrel break in.. I have brought the brass to the failure point without any sort of out of battery detonations or insane case head expansion.. Nothing over .428 and that is in a KVP 16" 1:16 Barrel that I ramped and polished for ultimate reliability in feeding everything and boy does it eat it all up! I was in no way concerned of case "smiley" bulges as two of my 1911's have just about the same case head exposure.. and I have never had a problem with hot loads of NO.9, 800x, LS, PP.. you name it.

As for graybeards statement about 10mm AR's ripping brass in half on its way out.. well I shot some 165's 11.2 LS 1.255" qL says "  11.20   1708  fps  1071 ft lbs  48177 psi  100.0 burn % !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!"  Proofs being 30% over SAAMI max on case pressure.. 48,750 BRASS FAILURE!

I had case failures every couple of rounds and would have to pop her open and take out the half a case from the chamber.. Not an issue and I have a little rubber plunger I happened upon that makes it a breeze..

My numbers
1620,1633,1645,1663,1629,1657,1639,1641,1650,1654,1657,1639,1671,1661,1683,1689,1671,1658,
1657 Average 1653.5 SD 17.8 HI 1689 LOW 1620

That's 1,001 ft lbs. avg. boys.

I sighted in my HS503CU at 41yds and using the 2moa dot as a hold over (as per quicktargets ballistics) was smashing clay pigeons on the 100yd backstop. Nothing but smiles. I have a to say I am thrilled and although there is more testing for me to do, However I am glad I went the route I did and skipped the CMMG. Blowback 10's can be done.. I set out on a mission and I feel I accomplished it @ 34.62oz bolt/buffer combo.. I used this (https://10mmautocombat.wordpress.com/blowback-bolt-calculations/) as a general guide line, call it hog wash if you will but it seemed to have worked for me.. to the point of no out of batteries with 600rds down the tube.  48,800psi/44.8oz = 1089.285714285714 PSI per OZ = 37,711 PSI

8" Banshee weighs 5lbs 10oz or so they say there info seems wacky My 16" 7lbs with Holosun. $1,500 case, optic, 7 - 30rd mags, speedloader and sling puts it right there with the CMMG as well.

Muskrat I'm sorry to hear about the bad bulges and what seems to be a lack of a resolution other than maybe a new barrel?? I never inquired much with CMMG but is there radial de-layed bolt and barrel of a proprietary design? I would think so.. If you intend to keep it I would begin the long and arduous task of finding what combination of brass, powder, and bullets give you the best results as far as not having such badly bulged brass.. Have you tried BulgeBusting or G-RX'ing the banshee brass? Or are they simply a no go? Total loss?  They say there's no free lunch with physics but it kinda sucks that CMMG doesn't just readily state "Hey this gun will cycle and safely shoot all factory and Hotter 10mm..Just Don't plan on reloading it!

I'm glad to have found this forum full of 10mm nuts! I've been a long time outside observer.. but I finally decided maybe I could throw my two cents out there. -Ben





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Thanks for the help everyone!

I haven't heard back from CMMG due to the long weekend, but I suppose the above post is a spoiler as to their response.

So with about 500 rounds through the Banshee, here's what I've noticed:

No malfunctions, failure to feed, or failure of the bolt to lock open on the last round, even with stock Glock magazines.

It's accurate...I'm the weak link near as I can tell.

Recoil is negligible. I shot some of my 200 grain, 1,100 fps target loads with the brace against my chin. Didn't love it, but it didn't really hurt, either.

It eats everything I've thrown at it, from vintage Underwood 200's (1350 fps from the 8" Banshee barrel) to my hot reloads to my powder-puff target reloads and any and all random factory ammo I had laying around. It has functioned perfectly with everything from 226 grains to 135 grains, all loaded from hot to tepid.

Book-max or Super-max loads run fine, but the brass goes in the dumpster. I'm not sure that's a terrible thing...I've had problems reloading spent brass from Underwood or my own semi-nuclear loads, mostly gas cutting around the primers. I think that reloading spent brass makes sense for a -90% load, not hotter.

I'm currently happy to shoot loads that bulge like the Federal Trophy Bonded 180 grain...once. I'm a little bummed about the single-use of brass, but then again I rarely reload or even shoot hot loads. I seen no point in pushing a 180 grain slug to 1,400+fps just to ring some steel. It's a nice field round, but I don't need to reload it...won't go through 100 in a year so no big expense to throw the brass away.

My typical plinker/target load is a 200 grain Blue Bullet going about 1,090 fps from a 6" kkm barrel. The 8" Banshee barrel kicks it up another 50~70fps, an NO bulges in multi-reloaded, mixed brass.

The Banshee is freaking FUN! It's a stupid gun for me in a lot of ways...not the least being that I can't shoot USPSA with it unless I convert it to a SBR and accept all the associated costs and restrictions. But it's the only...er...10mm that can be shot from the shoulder if need be...that runs whatever load you put through it. I just can't abide a finicky gun...no attribute makes up for it in my mind. If there was another reliable 10mm carbine out there I'd have gone that direction, but I never found one.

I might eventually get a second lower and register that as a SBR so I can shoot USPSA...or not. I bought it figuring that if I was bored with it in a year I'd just sell it.

Quote from: BENTENMM on February 17 2020 06:03:42 PM MST


As for graybeards statement about 10mm AR's ripping brass in half on its way out.. well I shot some 165's 11.2 LS 1.255" qL says "  11.20   1708  fps  1071 ft lbs  48177 psi  100.0 burn % !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!"  Proofs being 30% over SAAMI max on case pressure.. 48,750 BRASS FAILURE!

I had case failures every couple of rounds and would have to pop her open and take out the half a case from the chamber.. Not an issue and I have a little rubber plunger I happened upon that makes it a breeze..

I'm not sure I know what your point is here. Overpressure loads cause case failure? I did a fair amount of research before I got my 10mm AR. There are several threads on other forums about 10mm carbines shearing (not ripping) their brass. They were leaving about half of the case in the chamber and, of course, jamming up. It was a timing issue.

Given the range of power levels in 10mm ammo and the fact that the Banshee uses a delayed blowback system, am I being stupid in thinking that the action could possibly be opening a little early with hot loads and reducing case head support?

I'm sorry for the confusing statements I made. I was in a way I guess trying to elaborate the only times I experienced case shearing or failures were in extremely over pressured rounds. I don't think that anyone is stupid for taking in account any minute detail that would attribute to a loaded and fired cartridges performance as there are so many factors that can result in such a wide array of outcomes. As pointblank82 posted about the Banshee's chamber lead/support that tommac919 had a suspicion of..

Muskrat please fill us in on any new info you might get from CMMG in response to your inquiry. I don't look at these as stupid or pointless firearms.. They are something we enjoy and if it's what we choose to spend our time & money on then so be it.. people have lots of different hobby's that to others seem to rather fruitless except for personal gratification. I was at the range one time with some of my favorites and was talking to a fellow firearms enthusiast when I made the statement "yeah I know to a lot of people this is a crazy amount of money to spending on such toys right.." and he replied "you know what I've never seen? Is a Bank truck following a hearse, you can't take it with you and if its what you want in Life and it makes you Happy then does any of it really matter?"

I'd still say the Banshee is a Great purchase and I would have made one myself but I've always been fearful of the pistol brace laws and don't want to SBR.. My 5.56's are 14.5 pinned guns. I almost went that route as BBTI pretty much shows 14" being the optimal 10 barrel length.. Once I have more time with this one, I might make another even smaller.

Thank you to everyone involved in this thread, it's always Good to get a collective together get some thoughts and facts out there for others.  -Ben

Quote from: BENTENMM on February 18 2020 10:15:28 AM MST
I'm sorry for the confusing statements I made. I was in a way I guess trying to elaborate the only times I experienced case shearing or failures were in extremely over pressured rounds. I don't think that anyone is stupid for taking in account any minute detail that would attribute to a loaded and fired cartridges performance as there are so many factors that can result in such a wide array of outcomes. As pointblank82 posted about the Banshee's chamber lead/support that tommac919 had a suspicion of..

Muskrat please fill us in on any new info you might get from CMMG in response to your inquiry. I don't look at these as stupid or pointless firearms.. They are something we enjoy and if it's what we choose to spend our time & money on then so be it.. people have lots of different hobby's that to others seem to rather fruitless except for personal gratification. I was at the range one time with some of my favorites and was talking to a fellow firearms enthusiast when I made the statement "yeah I know to a lot of people this is a crazy amount of money to spending on such toys right.." and he replied "you know what I've never seen? Is a Bank truck following a hearse, you can't take it with you and if its what you want in Life and it makes you Happy then does any of it really matter?"

I'd still say the Banshee is a Great purchase and I would have made one myself but I've always been fearful of the pistol brace laws and don't want to SBR.. My 5.56's are 14.5 pinned guns. I almost went that route as BBTI pretty much shows 14" being the optimal 10 barrel length.. Once I have more time with this one, I might make another even smaller.

Thank you to everyone involved in this thread, it's always Good to get a collective together get some thoughts and facts out there for others.  -Ben

No worries, I wasn't jumping to offense, just a little confused. As I mentioned earlier, I did a lot of research in my quest for a gas operated AR carbine in 10mm. Lots of reports of guys building their own that were shearing off cases, using factory ammo. Even some of the fairly weak tea, like American Eagle, was doing it. .308 buffers seem to be the answer to that problem.

Others had bigger problems, like this fellow.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/s276/rsvetlik/KABOOM.jpg These are from a brand new Oly 10mm AR, not mine. First round fired and ejected. Second round sheared off and left top part in chamber. Third round partially chambered and fired out of battery. You can actually see where the top of the second round swaged the bullet down and was jammed a little into the rifling. That had to be a new underwear kind of experience with a blowback gun

Thanks for the explanation.--Jim

Yep just picked up my banshee last week and finally had time to go shoot it yesterday. Sonofabitch if i didn't get home and start to deprime/resize brass and literally had to pull my brass out of resizer die with channel locks. i'm like WTF. So I continue to resize/deprime and about every 5 rounds or so same problem. I remember reading on a guys video on the banshee on youboob a guy in the comment section was saying about 6 months back this was an issue however another guy replied cmmg had fixed this. One guy said his wouldn't work at all and sent it in and cmmg said they screwed up and put a .40 bolt in his by mistake.

Anyways, i'm wondering if changing out the bolt, buffer, spring or SOMETHING would alleviate this issue and I already spent $1,200 on this thing. It shoots great, accurate as hell. I already spend a lot on shooting and reloading to my wife's chagrin. It pisses me off to no end that cmmg wouldn't mention something like this. I guess they figure a guy who can spend $1,200 on a gun can spend money on endless amounts of factory ammo and doesn't reload anything so who cares?

On this subject, what is the best brass besides Starline? I have used a ton of S&B brass and it holds up really well to multiple reloads. Strangely enough, NONE of the S&B brass bulged yesterday ONLY the Starline. Anyone ever use Jagemann brass? From what i've seen Jagemann brass is built pretty stout. It seems like S&B quality. I'd buy S&B brass but they only sell it fully factory loaded. Winchester brass sucks for reloading and now Starline seems to be weak sauce but I guess spending $16 for a box of 50 rounds to not only shoot but then save the brass to reload is more economical than paying $20+ for a bag of 100 rounds of brass that I have to prime and put powder and a bullet in.... I've heard quality control at Starline has gone downhill which sucks however i've never had a bulge issue with any of my regular pistol's/1911's with Starline brass....The only problem with S&B brass is the primer pockets are so friggin tight the first couple of reloads when re-primering them. I'm not loading these super hot either. 7 grains of Unique. I did shoot some 7.5 gr Unique's also but it was S&B brass and none of those bulged. Could it be a burn rate thing? Maybe switch powders and spend countless hours working up loads? Ugh this suuuucks...

Lastly, am I going to need to buy a bulge buster die as someone mentioned above if I want to get more reloadings out of my Starline brass or would that even work?

My guess regarding the Banshee is that they utilized a partially supported chamber to increase reliability. If there's a 10mm carbine that also has a fully supported chamber and runs whatever you put through it, I haven't yet heard of it.

I'm also guessing that dedicated Banshee owners will find the sweet spot between velocity and brass damage...maybe you can push a 200 grain bullet to 1150 fps and still reload most of the brass, but at 1225 it all goes in the trash, or something like that.

Since hot-loads and re-used brass have caused me weapon damage in the past due to loose primer cups and gas cutting, I'm not entirely sure that a fully-supported chamber and consequential lack of bulging is doing me any huge favors. Granted, I might feel differently if I hadn't already purchased and gotten to like a Banshee, but I'm not depressed about having to find the sweet spot with reloads that allows me to save the brass, but still shoot something significantly hotter than .40 S&W.

A few months and a couple thousand rounds from now I'll have a more developed opinion, but for now it seems like 10mm carbines and unsupported chambers are synonymous if you want reliability. And, while it's not perfect, I'll take a reliable carbine that destroys the brass over an unreliable carbine that doesn't. YMMV.

On another note...not a word from CMMG in response to my queries. From a customer service perspective, I'm currently not supper-impressed.

Found this on another forum from a guy having the exact same issue's as we are. This is copied exactly from the email CMMG sent to the guy. Enjoy the B.S. ALSO as a note I got ahold of CMMG tech support and physically talked to a guy this very morning 0800 PST and he said brass thickness is the big part of it. He said they reload there and shoot everything thru their guns before they leave and they have found that Hornady brass holds up the best even with nuclear loads. They get an average of 3-4 reloadings with Hornady brass before its bulged to bad so I guess I'm getting Hornady brass and see how that works. I hate Hornady brass for my rifles but maybe for 10mm it's better so hopefully this helps everyone. I asked him if going to a lighter load say 135 gr would alleviate this and maybe a lighter buffer and he said no. Honestly I don't see how it wouldn't fix the issue by going lighter bullet/less powder but he said nope. Just get Hornady brass......Peace!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Customer,

I am sorry this response has taken so long, but I wanted to ensure due diligence when it comes to the safety of our customers. I personally coordinated testing and validation with CMMG's Product Design Engineers when we received several customers who were concerned with what appears to be 10mm cases bulging. CMMG, Inc. take this very seriously as we had not experienced true case bulging in any of our durability or function testing prior to releasing this firearm. I do want to assure you that the results of the additional testing concern that your Mk10 firearm is safe and reliable. We removed the barrel in question off of your Mk10 and replaced with a new barrel when it arrived. We did our testing using a CMMG owned lower and multiple barrels from different batches. Our initial testing pre-launch focused on big name manufacturers of 10mm ammunition (Winchester, Federal, S&B, Sig, Hornady, etc.) who had offerings in the most common grains, specifically 180gr and 200gr. With this new testing we ordered new lots of ammo from the original test ammo manufacturers and over 20 different types of ammunition from smaller manufacturers, and in offerings outside of the 180gr & 200gr. We created the statement below based on that testing. What you were seeing on the casing was not bulging, but case swell. Bulging would be where the casing grows in length and the material thins in an area, which typically leads to a ruptured case. Case swelling is what happens to all ammunition when it is fired and it forms to the chamber. Due to the design of the 10mm casing many of the cases appear to be bulging due to the brass filling our chamber lead. With our Radial Delayed Blowback (RDB) our bolt is locked into place when the round is fired and the delayed unlocking ensures safe operation. When the brass is manufactured correctly and the loads are not pushes to the hot side, then this case swell into the chamber lead does not appear.

As I stated above, your firearm has been verified as safe. Choosing a US manufacturer of ammunition in the 1,050 1,275fps will minimize the case swelling on the Mk10 10mm. We had concerns about very hot offerings in 10mm from hand loaders and some smaller but reputable manufacturers. The casings we were provided were a mixture of DoubleTap and Sig Sauer. We were not able to replicate the case swelling to match the spent cases provided. If these were reloads, that could account for the amount of swelling. We are including some of our spent cases with the firearm. When the casing is unchanged, but is used to contain 10mm rounds pushing 1,300fps or greater, then our firearm is still safe. The safety comes from being built around the AR platform barrel, barrel extension, bolt, and RDB delayed unlocking. Unfortunately, bad things happen to casings when anyone chooses to push ammunition beyond the design intent of the casing.

CMMG, Inc. Statement:

CMMG recognizes that the chamber lead and chamber in the Mk10 result in a less than 100% fully supported casing. Handguns do not have the same lead or chamber design due to the short distance and the way the round chambers with the barrels tipping/moving to assist, yet many 10mm handguns have unsupported cases also. The Mk10 chamber and lead were designed in a way to provide the most reliable feeding behavior while maintaining safe operation with properly loaded 10mm ammunition. The chamber and leads used to manufacture the Mk10 are similar to those we use on the 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP. With these calibers we do not see any bulging with any factory offerings of +P or below ammunition. Unfortunately, 10mm was designed in a way that pressures generated by max loads cannot be well contained in an unsupported chamber, resulting in case swelling and the inability to reload cases with certain combinations. Not every 10mm case is the same. SAAMI only defines the external dimensions of cases, which leads to varying wall thicknesses and strength. We've measured as much as a 25% difference in wall thickness between manufacturers.

CMMG has fired tens of thousands of rounds through our Mk10 platform durability testing and found no safety concerns from the case swelling. During our function and reliability testing, which tests feeding, extraction, ejection, and durability, we tested a wide variety of ammunition. We found that when the Power Factor > 230, using 180gr bullets, the greater the likelihood the casing will show visible signs of "bulging". CMMG concluded that the firearm was still safe, as it is designed to function and contain the pressures of properly loaded 10mm ammunition safely. CMMG does not recommend continuing to shoot ammunition that shows multiple signs of overpressure. If you are seeing extreme case swelling and any other common sign of overpressure, such as ejector swipes, blown primers, split cases, etc., discontinue using that ammunition and test another load or brand. CMMG stands behinds its products and is confident in our design of safe and functional firearms. In this case, we have found the inherent design of the 10mm cartridge produces some tradeoffs when it comes to the ability to reuse and reload cases. Once again, we would like to thank you for your business and hopefully this brief explanation might help you better understand our position on this particular situation.

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter. We took this claim very seriously and only had the safety of our customers at heart. Have a terrific New Year and a blessed day.

Good stuff there phaloxx, thanks!

Frankly I'm a lot less disappointed in CMMG for not putting this information front and center than I am with all the people who reviewed the gun (shooting Underwood ammo in many cases) and never mentioned it. You can't tell me NONE of them noticed the brass...it's pretty obvious even before you pick it up off the ground. Since I really don't load or shoot nuclear loads I'd have probably bought it anyway, but it's a rude surprise after the fact.

For giggles I picked one of my more-bulged pieces of reloaded brass. It's a multi-loaded A USA brass that had a max load of Blue Dot under either a 135 or 200 grain slug...don't know which as I was shooting multiple rounds over a chrono and not picking up spent brass until the end. (BTW, 200 grain XTP & 9.4 grains Blue Dot = 1,289 fps. 135 grain Nosler over 12.2 grains Blue Dot = 1,707 from the Banshee)

Case length before firing is unknown, though I've never had any of my brass get long enough to engage the cutters in my Lee Quick Trim Die. I'm guessing it was probably shorter than the standard 0.922".

Primer looks good...no melting or gas cutting.

Swell measures .4425", and extends .2920" from the rim upwards.

Overall length with the swell is 0.9740" prior to resizing.

After resizing and pass-through sizing overall length is 0.9870"

The brass actually looks pretty good at first glance, though under 20x magnification it's obvious that there is a crease above the reformed swell, and what looks suspiciously like the start of a tear along one part of said crease. Needless to say, it's going in the garbage.

Interesting about Hornady brass...I'll try some. I just bought 1K Starline, but it all gets used in the end.

Two Banshee loads that do NOT show any case bulging in multi-loaded, mixed brass:

200 grain Blue Bullet over 11 grains AA#9
High 1170 fps / Average 1143 fps.

200 grain Blue Bullet over 8.5 grains Blue Dot
High 1241 fps / Average 1211 fps.

I'm interested in finding the tipping point for brass bulging, but frankly 200 grains @ 1150 ~ 1200 fps is more than enough of a plinking load for me.

Now to see what I can do with 165 grain bullets...