Was shooting the Kimber target II a couple of days ago and was having feed issues big-time. It occurred when ever I tried to feed the first round after inserting the mag. I would say it was 8 or 10 rounds that I couldn't feed. Once I got it to feed a round it shot very good and then fed OK on the next round. I was shooting\testing 3 different rounds 180g JHP 8.0g 8.3g 9.0g Power Pistol all 1.25 cart overall length and measured after the width was all .42 per spec. Shot some of these rounds before with no problems so don't understand what the issue was this time. One other thing to note the non feeding rounds seem to stick half way to battery?? Checked the gun and mag all seemed OK. I will shoot some more to see what the problem might be.  Craig

Craig, not sure what you are experiencing exactly, the cartridges seem to be right as described.  May have just been a quirk.  Did you tap the magazine as you loaded it to insure the cartridges were fully to the rear of the box? 
Check the breech face for smoothness or any abnormalities  and extractor to see if the casings will slide up and under.

Good luck with the issues...

Craig,
   I have had similar troubles with my Kimber Target II. It sounds like what you're trying to describe is a round that won't go all the way into battery, or "failure to feed". Mine occasionally does it when the incoming round gets jammed between the extractor hook, the top of the feed ramp, and the "roof" of the chamber. A "3-point jam" if you will. I believe it is the extractor, & one day I will muster the courage to remove it & put a file on it. Mine is just a range toy & the issue is frustrating, indeed, but it's still a great gun to shoot, when it works. Good luck.

Well I'll ask the question. How old are your springs? Kimber recommends changing the springs every year. Sounds to me like the recoil spring is getting lazy and needs replacement. I'll also state I think their recommendation is a little too much but if the springs are more than 3 years old, I'd be looking for new ones. Per Dennis at Kimber, the springs are to be replaced regardless if you shoot the gun or not. Considering how cheap springs are, that's where I would start for the fix.

This KImber is very new maybe 2 years old. The slide is very hard to pull back and I have to manually cock it first before racking the slide. I have oiled it and it is better but still very hard to pull back on the slide. This gun ran fine last time I had it out so was looking at the rounds as the culprit. Really only 100 rounds run through it if that many. Craig

Ok.  Barrage of questions time.  Some are for clarification of my assumptions, others are follow-ups to those assumptions and may be invalidated by a previous response.



About the malfuntions and the gun:

1.  Can you confirm that all the jams occurred when releasing the slide on a fresh magazine (first round)
    a.  If the slide was locked open, was it released by depressing the slide stop lever?
    b.  If the slide was not released by the slide stop lever, or if the slide was not open, are you certain you didn't "ride" the slide forward?
2.  Was the jam a typical three point jam, bolt over base jam or other? (Sounds like 3-point based on the description)
3.  Do you have a flat bottom firing pin stop installed?
4.  What strength of recoil spring is installed?
5.  How old are the magazine springs?
6.  When was the last time the gun was field stripped?
7.  Detail stripped?

And about the ammo:

8.  Does the same issue occur with factory ammo? (I get that you may not have any, I don't)
9.  Did the reloads get tested in a case gauge?  ( See that they were measured by caliper as in spec, but a case gauge may show different results)
10.  How does the ammo perform in other 10mm firearms? (Again, this may not be an option)


A 3-point jam is characterized by a round that is partially fed into the chamber.  The three points of contact are the case rim against the breach face, the bullet/case mouth against the top of the chamber and the case wall against the feed ramp/bottom of chamber.  The head of the round is below it's final chamber position and the jam is resolved usually by tugging the slide a millimeter or two to the rear and releasing.

Assuming this correctly defines the behavior and that it is on the "charging" round then this is caused by insufficient slide momentum or by a geometry issue in the gun or with the ammo.  It can also be caused by a weak magazine spring, though a weak spring will manifest less often when charging of the gun and more often mid-magazine.

Insufficient slide momentum can be caused by not releasing the slide when fully to the rear or by riding the slide forward, however slightly.  As an initial test use the slingshot or overhand method to release from slide lock by pulling the slide smartly to the rear and letting your hand slip off the back of the slide.  This ensures that the slide is fully the rear, and that you are not riding the slide forward.  I know this is a basic, but it is easy to fall into the habit of riding the slide (ask me how I know ).

If the slide was gummed up (looking at you FrogLube) by a lubricant that can degrade over time, then the lube could be the culprit to slide momentum woes as well.  Clean, lube and try again.

Same goes for factory shipping grease and oils.  These are designed to protect metal from oxidation during shipping and storage and are terrible at providing functional lubrication during operation.  Clean, lube and try again.

Recoil spring strength could also be an issue, however, in general even a 14 lb spring should be enough to chamber a round in a properly set up 1911.  Probably not the issues.

Geometry issues can be caused by excessive COAL for the round.  The_Shadow has written here extensively about tipping angles, especially as they apply to rounds with a large metplat.  However, this is rarely the issue with a 180 grain bullet in 10mm and 1.250" is a very reasonable COAL for a 180 grain RN, TC or JHP design.

The final issue can be actual geometry in the gun.  And this is beyond my skill set to explain.

sqlbullet, Boy I will try to answer your questions one at a time. #1 the slide is locked open and I manually release but the spring takes it home I do not follow it in at all. #2 This is a Stock Kimber and I don't get extra stuff like you need to make the Glocks work. #8 no factory ammo ever used. #9 I can't find my 10mm case gauge. good idea and I will follow up on that. I have a Witness I can try these loads in and will go for that when I can. I think this was a fluke of some sort and I just need to try these loads again.  Thanks all for the input.  Craig

Well I just ran a bunch of rounds through the Kimber and all fed fine. Will shoot asap in a day or too.  Thanks to all for the input.  Craig

Good to hear!

I find my 1911's to be the most finicky feeders in my safe.  Every one has shown a three point jam at some point. They are just a bit more sensitive to tipping angles than more modern designs.

Don't get me wrong, I love 1911's.  They are the most prolific design in my gunsafe.

I found with my S/A 1911 TRP 6" that I need to insert a loaded magazine when the slide is locked back.  Then pull back sharply on the slide to load the first round.  It won't load that first round reliably any other way.

marlin39a, thanks for the input and I agree as that is one of the ways I got it to work. The other was to drop a round in the chamber and then let the slide fall, then put in the mag, Boy I have never had these issues before this time and I hope they go away. Craig

Quote from: gadabout on June 30 2019 02:48:39 PM MDT
marlin39a, thanks for the input and I agree as that is one of the ways I got it to work. The other was to drop a round in the chamber and then let the slide fall, then put in the mag, Boy I have never had these issues before this time and I hope they go away. Craig

That's likely the start of your problems with that gun. 1911s, particularly those with internal extractors, should never be loaded by dropping the slide on a round in the chamber. You are forcing the extractor hook to snap around the rim of the case. Feeding from the top of the mag, the rim slides up behind the extractor hook.

If you have done this often, it's very likely you have slightly bent the extractor and might have chipped it, too.

I gotta second Graybeard on that.  The internal extractor on 1911's so equipped does not have the range of motion needed to go over the rim. Dropping a round in the chamber and letting the slide go will definitely cause long term problems.  The 1911 is controlled feed and meant to be operated as such.

I only did it when nothing else worked and don't make a habit of doing it. Boy as soon as the heat breaks I will test some more. Craig

Since you have a little time, why not remove and inspect your extractor. Things to look for would include chips or any peening of the front end of the extractor hook. The inside of the extractor hook should be free of any chips, or rough areas, machine marks, etc. You could also check the extractor tension. If you aren't familiar with how to do that there are many videos out there. It doesn't hurt to clean out the extractor tunnel in the slide, either. Pipe cleaners, Q-Tips, even a .22 bore brush can be used for that.

Good luck with it!