Do you guys think they penetrate deep enough to be a good SD round? Obviously over penetration won't be an issue (missed shots always an issue), but I think TNoutdoors got something like 11" through denim.

Other Underwood loads in 10mm Im considering is:
155 XTP
165 Gold Dot

My quest for that perfect match goes on

More of my opinions, 

I wouldn't carry Underwood full power loads for self defense, for a few reasons.

(1) They're not needed...too much of a good thing for the intended use.
(2) More recoil than necessary, slowing followup shots, that are often needed in SD situations.
(3) The ammo could, possibly, be used against you in court.

If I were carrying a 10mm, of any kind, I'm pretty sure I'd load it with Winchester 175 Silvertips.

I'm not knocking Underwood, not at all, I'm sure its all very good stuff....its just not what I'd carry for defense against humans, we're not that hard to kill.

 Im actually currently carrying Sig 180s that get 1180ish from my 29. I also like Hornady Critical Duty 175,  they came in around 1080. That's 100fps faster than a Glock 22 with Hornady 175 CD. So I figure the problems some 40s have with not expanding, is solved here with extra speed.

The 357 Mag 125 grain JHP loads at 1400-1500 fps scored the best in the Marshall and Sanow reports ( which are kinda bunk, but more on that in a minute).  To scale that load "up" to 10mm, we need to look at the sectional density of the 125 grain bullet, which is .140.  A 155 grain 10mm is a .138 SD, and the Underwood load is 1500 fps. 

So, it is reasonable to assume that this load would mimic the terminal penetration performance of the 125 grain 357 load in a comparably constructed JHP bullet.  It is also reasonable to assume that overall terminal performance would be a bit better since it is larger in diameter, and delivers a bit more terminal energy budget.

Free recoil will probably be very close to a wash.  The 10mm load would generate more "raw" recoil, but a Glock 29 will weigh more than a scandium 357 mag.  However, if your 357 would be a 6.5" S&W N Frame 28-2, that story changes.

So, all in all, I would take 155 grains over 135 grains.  But, I have loaded up 135's before for the home gun.  My wife shoots them better since they recoil a bit less at full power.

Which brings us to the bunk I was going to discuss later.

Buy a box of 135's, 155's and Silvertips.  Get a timer and go run all the ammo on the timer in Bill Drills.  Run them at 1,2,4,7,10,15 and 25 yards.  That is 48 rounds total of each load.  Score your targets and carry the round you shoot the best. 

Hint:  It will almost certainly be the Silvertip.

See, the problem with the Marshall and Sanow data is they had no way to factor out stops due to things other than the value of the hit.  If all that was shot with the 22 LR were mice that faint at loud sounds and all that was shot with the 458 Lott was drug crazed elephants, the 22 LR would far and away be the "best"

What is actually best?  95% of the time any caliber you get solid hits with.  So, the best carry load will definitely be the one you can hit the best with.  And the Bill Drill will expose that in a big hurry.

Silvertips are rated at 1290 which makes you go"yeaaaahhhhh buddy" then you see they used a 5.5" or 6" barrel lol  They get 1150 or so from a Glock 29. I begged Hornady to bump the Critical Duty up a tad,  I would love it if they got 1150-1160.

What makes you fellers hang onto your Silvertips? Warewolves?  Haha

I do think the CD's are sexy expanded.

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Silver Tips are a good round, been around and proven... are they the hardest hitting , no.

But placement is more important ( IMO ) then also second hit... Unless you train long enough with the higher impulse ammo it's not going to happen.


PS Nice second Picture, tho I could see that under the title  "hold my beer and now watch this "   

I chose Silvertips because they are well proven, loaded by a major manufacturer and cannot be considered "anything special", and I just don't much care for little gummy tips on pistol bullets.

We might not be hard to kill, but we can be hard to stop:

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/epthen-johnson-shooting-video-lufkin-pd/

That having been said, I think Silvertips in 10mm are still a good choice for carry.

I didn't watch the video yet... But I bet shot placement had more to do with it than bullet selection.

Quote from: tommac919 on May 20 2017 05:55:31 AM MDT
Silver Tips are a good round, been around and proven... are they the hardest hitting , no.

But placement is more important ( IMO ) then also second hit... Unless you train long enough with the higher impulse ammo it's not going to happen.


PS Nice second Picture, tho I could see that under the title  "hold my beer and now watch this "   

The picture was taken safely, and I haven't had a drink in 4 years now. I removed the striker to take the picture and used a cell phone to snap it from the side.

Quote from: Overkill338 on May 20 2017 11:16:38 AM MDT

Quote from: tommac919 on May 20 2017 05:55:31 AM MDT
Silver Tips are a good round, been around and proven... are they the hardest hitting , no.

But placement is more important ( IMO ) then also second hit... Unless you train long enough with the higher impulse ammo it's not going to happen.


PS Nice second Picture, tho I could see that under the title  "hold my beer and now watch this "   

The picture was taken safely, and I haven't had a drink in 4 years now. I removed the striker to take the picture and used a cell phone to snap it from the side.

After you watch it we can share our thoughts.

I did watch it. The guy never even flinched as being shot.

I know shot placement is everything. But if I dropped back to ST's, I might as well stick with my Critical Duty ammo. They don't shed weight like the ST and are made to pass through objects including thick clothing and still open. Not much difference in speed either. 1080 vs 1130. I can shoot the Critical Duty's a lot faster than I can the Sig's or the Underwoods, no doubt about that. The big bonus is I can order the LE 50 round boxes of Critical Duty for $35+ shipping.

Quote from: Overkill338 on May 20 2017 11:52:47 AM MDT
I did watch it. The guy never even flinched as being shot.

I know shot placement is everything. But if I dropped back to ST's, I might as well stick with my Critical Duty ammo. They don't shed weight like the ST and are made to pass through objects including thick clothing and still open. Not much difference in speed either. 1080 vs 1130. I can shoot the Critical Duty's a lot faster than I can the Sig's or the Underwoods, no doubt about that. The big bonus is I can order the LE 50 round boxes of Critical Duty for $35+ shipping.

My mistake I quoted the wrong post.

Quote from: 4949shooter on May 20 2017 01:06:06 PM MDT

Quote from: Overkill338 on May 20 2017 11:52:47 AM MDT
I did watch it. The guy never even flinched as being shot.

I know shot placement is everything. But if I dropped back to ST's, I might as well stick with my Critical Duty ammo. They don't shed weight like the ST and are made to pass through objects including thick clothing and still open. Not much difference in speed either. 1080 vs 1130. I can shoot the Critical Duty's a lot faster than I can the Sig's or the Underwoods, no doubt about that. The big bonus is I can order the LE 50 round boxes of Critical Duty for $35+ shipping.

My mistake I quoted the wrong post.

I still value your opinion. If you guys think id be better off with Critical Duty than my Sig's & Underwoods, then I'll switch back. I know shot placement is key and being able to put the 2nd shot near the 1st is just as important. Plus its not hard to get target ammo close to matching 1080 fps

I like Buffalo Bore 155gr Barnes. The old Golden Sabers did well if anyone loaded them up now.