Do you have any 180gr FMJ laying around to take a measurement of for comparison to the JHPs?

I've got some 180gr Golden Sabers that come to .623".

Thanks for giving me something to do.

Glad to help. I'll make note of that on the Golden Sabres, very little difference between them and the XTPs.

Quote from: EdMc on September 10 2012 02:55:36 PM MDT
I did get some 180 Gold Dots to try, too. I measured them for something to do ......0.633  to 0.639 length and the 180 XTPs were all around 0.618. From 0.015 to 0.020 longer for the GDs. Shows why it's a good idea to match the exact  bullets used in load data.

Yep, good point there. Or, if not matching the bullet, it's a good idea to do the measurements and calculations so the base of the bullet is in the same place as the load data, so the case volume is the same.

Quote from: EdMc on September 06 2012 08:52:16 PM MDT

Quote from: REDLINE on September 06 2012 04:22:15 PM MDT
  Do you know for sure about Underwood?

Pulled down UW bullets on another website looks just like 800-X.

No, I know nothing for sure, just the usual internet lurking. I usually do most of my shooting over a chrono at a friends place....he's reloaded for many years so I trust his opinion. Anyway, he pointed out some subtle primer changes on my loads that were slightly over 9 gr of LS and measured case expansion indicated rising pressure. In my G20SF the velocity averaged just under 1200 fps (180 XTP). In the article I referenced this would be around the test load starting velocity of the VV-N350 with a 180 GD in a 5 in Kimber.

What I seek isn't the fastest load, but something with a 180 gr solidly over 1200 fps without pushing the pressure envelope and decent accuracy.

Blue Dot and Accurate no. 9 get me comfortably above 1200 fps in my G20 with a 180 XTP using Hornady data. The no. 9 loads are a ways below book max @ 1225 fps.

The Blue Dot I have never got close to the Hornady nor Speer loading's velocity. .. Duplication of their use of bullets, primers etc., only difference was Starline instead of Hornady brass. Slight increase in a Smith 1006 with 5 in barrel but still well off. Maybe a bad lot, who knows, I'm not wasting my time with it anymore. My loads with Power Pistol were right on book values so I know of no other explanation. If the N350 doesn't work out I'll move on to 800X........at least I can find that locally.

Okay, finally fired 5 rds 9.5 of N-350, 1.250 COAL, CCI 300, Gold Dot 180 & Starline.
Only two shots registered on the chrono....1269 and 1251. Bad news was three smile....two having signs of primer leakage and one primer not pierced but deeply indented. All fired from a stock G20SF.

This load was under Speer's max for N-350 but was ~110 fps over their max load (9.7) results. With my trials with Blue Dot I was that much 'under' their results.

The other two cases measured .434 or slightly over at their max bulge. Obviously, I'll be starting over at a lesser load and maybe bump the COAL out to 1.260. The N-350 has possibilities..........

That data is miles over Vihtavuori's published data for 10mm and N350.  The list 6.6 grains as a max under a 180 grain JHP.

They also list N105 as the best performer in 10mm with 180 grain bullets.  It delivers 1208 fps from 9.9 grains of powder.

It certainly is......

If you remember you told me about the Handloader article some time back and I ordered a copy. Pearce started at 8.5 and went to 10.0 in a Kimber Target II......I know, ramped and fully supported barrel. Speer #14 starts at 8.9 and goes to 9.7, although their max velocity was only 1152. At their max load of BD Speer got 1295, I got 1138. Confusing....ain't it? It's not like I just made the N-350 load up on my own. Anyway, the N-350 shows promise, the Blue Dud was a waste of time and money. Contacting Alliant about the BD wasted more time......

So I'll cut back on the N-350 load and see how it goes.......

Yeah... I know there is other data.

Just giving a kindly word of caution that you might want to work up from a lower charge.

And, I am all for hot rodding.  Just wanted to be sure you were aware of the factory data.  Might also be worth an email to Handloader to confirm the powder they were using....

Thanks, I knew what you were saying. The Speer data is why I wasn't too worried about being over VV's values. Euro company in a litigious country etc.....

Good idea on contacting Handloader.....I may do just that since I'm now a subscriber. They might even give an answer. 

Quote from: EdMc on September 21 2012 08:18:41 AM MDT
So I'll cut back on the N-350 load and see how it goes.......

Great work.  I'm anxious to see further results.  By the way, I've seen it said the Vihtavuori are clean burning.  Did the N350 seem to burn clean?

More stupid than great as sqbullet pointed out. No real difference between 9.5 and 9.7 grains which was Speer's max load. I should know better and have started lower......but I was lucky.. this time.

The Glock was dirty when fired so no way I know how clean the VV was. Wasn't expecially loud nor any big flash even at what was an overcharge. I've got a few loaded at 9.0 @ 1.250 and some XTPs loaded at 8.5 @1.260 that I plan to try tomorrow.

Also sent an email to Handloader to ask what COAL they used in the original test with 180 GDs in the Kimber. I'd think the better support of the Kimber barrel would allow the use of a higher loading. They went up to 10.0 grains at well over 1300 fps in their testing. They claimed non of the loads exceeded SAAMI pressure standards. Who knows?

So, the 9.0 gr of N-350 @ 1.250, 180 GD averaged 1206 out of the G20SF. I think this is as high as I care to go for use in the Glock without loading longer.

The 8.5 gr of N-350 @ 1.260, 180 XTP averaged 1150.....I'd meant to load these with WLP but loaded them in cases with CCI 300 like the first load mentioned.

Also shot some loads of 9.0 gr Longshot, 1.265, WLP, 180 XTP and Starline out of a Colt Delta. Average velocity was 1262 fps.........but all cases had smileys. Hornady's max is 8.2 gr @ 1150....1.260 OAL.....now I know why.    These averaged 1198 in the G20SF as I remember.

And so it goes........

The Colt Delta Elite barrel was stock?  If so, the smilies wouldn't be too surprising as their barrel seems to have less 10mm case support than any other.  I wonder if the smilies would show up in a Glock barrel too.