No talk here about them. They both looked pretty bad with the Minnesota one looking to be a slam dunk.

Of course they look bad. People died. Both cases are still under investigation. Or would you prefer to pass judgment and convict otherwise not-guilty persons in the (social) media? FYI: additional video evidence has been released in regards to the Baton Rouge incident. Still "looks" bad.

The Baton Rouge perp was stated to have a firearm in the original dispatch.  Perp refused to comply, was tased and kept reaching for his pockets while being combative with police.  He was shot dead!

Oh yea, his rap sheet was 20 years long of criminal history.



http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alton-sterling-shooting-baton-rouge-police-sparks-outrage-protests-n604431

As always I think these cases need to be played out in court with all the details.


  The Baton Rouge incident looks bad, but I wish they would release the call made about the guy having made a threat with a firearm. Many things going against him including the criminal history (which I doubt the responding officers knew).
   In the Minnesota incident all that was mentioned was being pulled for a tail-light that was out. The statements made reflected him being a CCW holder and having a firearm. We don't know what exactly the officer told him to do, but if were me my hands would have just stay put on the wheel while I was told how to proceed. I kind of doubt me going into a pocket for a license, etc... In the video the COP seemed a little delusional and trigger happy. No criminal history and the family is upset the NRA isn't voicing on his behalf. I'm thinking this COP might fry for this one.

Quote from: Intercooler on July 07 2016 01:37:43 PM MDT
As always I think these cases need to be played out in court with all the details.


  The Baton Rouge incident looks bad, but I wish they would release the call made about the guy having made a threat with a firearm. Many things going against him including the criminal history (which I doubt the responding officers knew).

The latest (cell phone) video was released yesterday. The vid and audio clearly shows: the initial commands, taser (twice), "he's got a gun" quotes, his reaching for his right-side pocket, the officer drawing and repeating commands, perp continues to resist and reaches toward the pocket, the shooting, the recovery of a handgun from the right-side pocket. End of story. Justified, at this point, regardless of his history.

QuoteIn the Minnesota incident all that was mentioned was being pulled for a tail-light that was out. The statements made reflected him being a CCW holder and having a firearm. We don't know what exactly the officer told him to do, but if were me my hands would have just stay put on the wheel while I was told how to proceed. I kind of doubt me going into a pocket for a license, etc... In the video the COP seemed a little delusional and trigger happy. No criminal history and the family is upset the NRA isn't voicing on his behalf. I'm thinking this COP might fry for this one.

This one, not so clear. But as you said, it looks bad.

The Baton Rouge case needs to develop before I comment based on the victim's record. The Minnesota case is bad news for the officer who may very well end up in the can. He shot and killed a LICENSED gun owner because of a broken taillight. The governor nailed it by saying this would not have happened if the victim was white and I 100% agree.

Looks like there are still racist cops in America.

My $.02


I personally think there is LIKELY to be a lot more come out in the MN. case.  The woman was WAYYYY too calm and the policeman seemed incredibly agitated for a "routine" situation.


On the other hand, the Louisiana one seems damn near air-tight: guy flat on the ground with two officers on top of him and one decides to shoot him.


We need to remember there was a lot more going on in both situations than what we saw in the videos.


Pat

And another thing; the VERY WEEK after I got my CCW here in Columbus, Ohio I was stopped for speeding by the Columbus Police.  I did EVERYTHING right (except the speeding part  ) but was shaking like a leaf.  Did not have my gun or any other equipment in the car.  When the officer came initially to my window I told him I was CCW but didn't have anything in the car.  His response?  With God as my witness, he said, "Well, why not?" and smiled.  He said he would feel a lot better if everyone were armed.


Incredibly nice guy, totally professional.  I got the ticket but everything went off without a hitch.


Pat

More Andy and less Barney.

I can't help but think its bad training.  If you would be in trouble for doing the exact same thing, they should be in trouble also.  The "Us vs Them" attitude where "them" is anyone that isn't a cop is simply an accident waiting to happen.

It makes me wonder what would be the record if video wasn't used.  It would be the word of a cop which would be given higher credibility that that of other witnesses.  I'd like to see the initial statements and reports of those involved.

Greg

Everyone's going to be arm chair quarterbacking these two shootings to death. I'm not a LEO, and don't have the right to judge any of these officers. What I saw in the Baton Rouge incident were two officers give a suspect a command several times, he failed to comply, he was tazed twice with no apparent affect, he was then taken to the ground, he still failed to comply with the officer's commands, he reached for his pocket several times and was told to stop or he would be shot, and after reaching for his pocket AGAIN, the officers used deadly force. I think both officers exercised remarkable restraint, especially considering that the call they answered was 'a man with a gun.' As for the shooting in Minnesota, I haven't seen enough info to make any kind of decision, and I will look into it further.

ten officers shot in Dallas this evening with three officers dead....  Not a good day!

Quote from: The_Shadow on July 07 2016 09:42:26 PM MDT
ten officers shot in Dallas this evening with three officers dead....  Not a good day!

I've been watching this since the onset. Not a good day is right. At this time it's reported (CNN) 11 officers shot, 4 dead. No words....

   We saw this in NY and now in Dallas. I think unless things change we might see a whole lot more of this in the future. Yesterday on the news they said Baltimore has experienced back to back years with 6% reduction of Police force. People are staying out of the profession!

Don't know if they stay out of the profession. But I can talk about the NYPD. People like me leave the big forces for bigger jobs due to pay and benefits. The smaller suburban departments just pay better and give the officers better benefits. A local job near NYC pays a patrolman nearly the same as a NYPD LT. Plus at the local level no one is on your ass like the big jobs. (I have worked many midnight shifts with no calls at all)

Dallas PD is having the same problem, I just read they lost 50 officers to local PD's.

Just read of an Officer involved shooting in Valdosta GA...Things are a mess as the trust breaks down...

I blame the current government (POTUS) for the dividing of this country, politically, socially, culturally, religiously and racially...But all of this fits into his communism disguised as socialism plot to CHANGE this country.
It has been said that Obama would try an end around, Martial Law action to disarm the people and extend his Dictatorship!