Hey everyone, i need help from the experts. What i have is a new Glock 20sf i have been trying to reload for, i posted here a while back about smileys from some once fired sig ammo.

Well since then i have aquired brand new Starline brass, Xtreme 180 hpcb heavy plate concave base bullets.I am only using 8.2 grains of Power Pistol WLP primers oal of 1,255 Alliants site says 9.3. Any way still getting smileys with a new Lone Wolf barrel which has a much tighter chamber but in my opinion comparing with the Glock barrel has less case support than the factory barrel.
I get smileys with either barrel.

I feel that this is a fairly moderate load kinda defeating the purpose of the 10mm cartridge. Not all of the rounds are smiled i loaded 20 the other day and had to pitch about 8 cases i cant stand to throw brass away. I am not new to reloading about 12 yrs now had success in all cartridges but this one, i need some advice,

just about to the point of selling the Glock and cut my losses on the 10mm cartridge . i want to load this round i really like it but cant see throwing away brass after one loading.

I am putting very slight taper crimp just enough to remove flare,here are some pictures any advice will be appreciated.











some you can feel with a fingernail and some you cant please help lol.

One other thing i am scaling each round and my scales are accurate according to the test weights so they should be consistently charged.

What velocities are you getting?

Haven't tried WLP w/ PP, but with other powders it can behave like a magnum primer (hence no mag LP from Winchester).

Try CCI 300s and report back.

Benchrst, i have not set my chrono up for these yet, i will see if my lgs has any cci usually just has winchester i will see what he has.
Thank you for the reply.

Might I ask what recoil spring setup are you using?  I prefer a non captive recoil setup and here is why...

Glock 20Sf Factory spring test
It takes 5lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 18lb 0oz at lock open

Glock 20SF spring test Wolff Gun Springs 22lb RSA installed
It takes 6lb 4oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 22lb 9oz at lock open

22-Slightly over a pound difference 1lb 1oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
24-Slightly over a pound difference 2lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
22-Slightly over a 2 pound difference 2lb 9oz at lock open
24-Slightly over a 6 pound difference 6lb 1oz at lock open

I feel that the non captive setup is working to hold lock up dwell time just a little longer.  I've gone to 8.2 grains of Power Pistol under the 200 grain XTP.

Things to consider are the brass being very soft, Power Pistol being faster can snap that brass expansion faster.
Barrel being of tighter tolerances in the bore can also have higher initial pressure.

How about just trying a slower powder like Blue Dot ...

Haven't ever seen a smile at 10.4+ of BD with same head and case, barrel as used

As a PS... how is the same round fired in the stock barrel ( re shadows remark )  ?  Any smiles?

A few thoughts.

Winchester LP are in reality a magnum primer, and 800x gets peaky with magnum primers.

Tight chambers run at higher pressure than looser chambers.

I wouldn't think those factors would be enough at 8.2g, UNLESS....

if the crimp isn't enough to hold the bullet tightly during the stripping from the magazine, hitting the feed ramp, and chambering the round.  If the bullet is set back into the case, pressures can rise dramatically.  I blew up a Glock when that happened with my reloaded ammo.

Another thing I'd check is how deeply the chamber is cut into the barrel.  Those smiles (especially the first one in the first pic) seem to be quite a ways up on the case.

Final thing is 800x is not a powder to be thrown by a measure and not hand weighing each charge.  Those big flakes make keeping the charges uniform a pain in the keester.

Greg

Good point Geeman

QuoteFinal thing I'd check is how deeply the chamber is cut into the barrel.  Those smiles (especially the first one in the first pic) seem to be quite a ways up on the case.

Some barrels which are Match and not "Drop-In" may have a short chamber cut which is final reamed after the barrel is fitted to the slide.  These barrels have a longer chamber hood that is adjusted for precise fitting, then the chamber will be cut to the final depth for that Match Grade setup.

The primers may also be suspect and Power Pistol usually doesn't need magnum strength to fully ignite.  Sometimes I will develop loads using the magnum primers to find the upper range using them.

Oops,

I guess I had 800x on my mind....

Power pistol load data seems to not have the saftey fudge factor that the Hogden, IMR and associated powders.  Max is often max with Power Pistol.

Greg

Shadow, i am using the stock recoil spring and guide rod. Have been looking for Bluedot no one around here has any yet. I am getting some smiled cases with Glock barrel also.

The cases expand to .434 in the Glock barrel and .427 in the Lonewolf barrel. I may load some with ole faithful Unique 7.3 grains. I have Unique,Bullseye and Power pistol some BE86 and some 2400 on hand. i am partial to Alliant powders they have always worked well and give good accuracy.

Thank You very much for your replies i really want to get this cartridge worked out i hate to sell my Glock, some say i shoud have went with a KKM barrel more case support anyone own one of these?

I think we need to know fps before recommendations, unless anyone knows how PP behaves with 'magnum' primers?

I've run RMR HC 180s with CCI 300s / PP - 8.8gr was fine, 9.0 showed a slight mile, expansion was .4285. This was out of a G20.4 LW 5.15" w/ 24#.

ss, when did you buy the LW barrel?

Benchrst, just got the Lonewolf barrel this week, it is the 5.15" maybe i should try the guide rod Shadow mentioned and a 24lb spring.

May try and get my chrono out this weekend and see what it says, it does not feel hot at all, brass seems to be ejecting normal not excessively far. just does not feel like a load that should be getting smiles. accuracy seems good too. mine is a GEN 3 20sf purchased new in March of this year.

I have a Gen 3 G20 and have run 8.8 of Power Pistol over a 180 RN, FP, and JHP. While that is in the warm territory it isn't terribly hot. There is no sign of a smile. I'll be interested to see your results with a different primer and different barrel, though my G20 has a stock barrel.

I'm really leaning towards the primer heating up the load more than anticipated, though there's the potential you got a soft batch of brass.

The reason I ask about the barrel is it's been suggested that LW (Dasan), at some point, changed the chamber dimensions. I don't know when that change happened, if at all.

My LW 5.15" was purchased around Sept of last year, and 5.2" threaded very recently. A test last week (9.0 PP, 180gr IDP, CCI 300, new Starline, 20#) between 5.15, 5.2, & 5.2 comped showed very similar results in terms of case condition / expansion, with velocities being 1,270, 1,272, & 1,298 respectively.   

I am about to give up, today i loaded up 30 rounds with 180 xtreme hpcb with 7.3 of Unique. Shot 15 through the Lone wolf barrel and 15 through the stock Glock barrel.

4 out of the 15 shot from the LW barrel were good 11 smiled junk. The Glock barrel had 12 good and 4 junk. Looks like a total waste of a 100$ to me goodbye Lonewolf barrel. why i am at it may as well sell the Glock 20 and just enjoy shooting my Glock21.

If i have to download it may as well just shoot my 45acp.  My dealer did have some cci300 but at this point i doubt that will help me out, appears just not enough case support in either of these barrels. But the Glock is the better of the two.  I have also tried firm taper crimp, and just enough to remove the bell did not seem to matter. Well guess i will see if i can recoup some of my money from the gun and barrel and move on, brass is to costly to pitch after 1 firing in my opinion.

Thank You everyone for trying to help me, my dealer did have a new Delta Elite the new version with the Beavertail grip safety and the novak 3 dot sights but i would probably be in same shape as i am in now do not know what there case supprt is like.

Man i want a 10mm bad but this smiling brass has me over it wish S&W would have kept making the 10mm