So in the midst of loooking to buy more 10mm ammo to feed my new 10mm HK USP i was on underwoods website when i saw thier ammo looked like it was dulled down in the 10mm department  so i emailed them

Today i got an email back from underwood and I'm disappointed. Both in underwood for catering to  one specific gun in all of thier ammo choices, and colt for making such shitty barrel/chamber.

Yea yea  i know.  Load my own.. but sometimes  i just like buying factory factory ammo. And  without going over most books maxs its hard to touch same speed and energy. I also  dont like loadin over book maxs  as i have no way to measure pressure my self. 

Guess  i will be holding on to few  boxes of thr hot ammo i have left

I was reading you post on Facebook earlier, it is what it is with the commercial loaders.  Also about the going over book loads...who do you think UW BB DT and SF got their numbers?   They surpassed the printed data, although they swear they don't exceed the SAAMI pressure values set for the cartridges...Hummmm!

All of these loads we came to know, were documented for preservation sake, so people could understand what was being sold, purchased and used.  Yes we can duplicate what was used if we follow exactly what was used, given that powders are possibly a different lot numbers, we still need to utilize safe work up testing.

Quote from: The_Shadow on April 13 2016 09:57:07 AM MDT
they swear they don't exceed the SAAMI pressure values set for the cartridges

This has always been a source of mystery for me.  I don't buy into the idea that book loads are lawyer driven.  Too easy in the rifle section to get "sticky" extraction with max loads.  And several of the books publish pressure data.  For instance, 8.2 grains of Longshot under a 200 grain Horndady FMJ loaded 1.260" is 35,000 psi SAAMI pressure according to Hodgdon's website.  Yet, we know several makers exceed that load based on their pull down information.

It continues to perplex me a bit.  Is Hodgdon mis-representing the pressure.  Is it a computer derived value, not from actual testing, and therefore conservative.  Of have the makers carefully selected the rounds they send for testing so as to minimize statistical deviation, which would allow them a bit of latitude in their statements.

Quote from: The_Shadow on April 13 2016 09:57:07 AM MDT
  They surpassed the printed data, although they swear they don't exceed the SAAMI pressure values set for the cartridges...Hummmm!

^ i agree. they surpassed the max load in some. Cases.. thy also mix powders and such. But they have  a  lot  more tools  and such to safely mix  powders and work  up  loads. And test  pressures  and such.  The only thing i could do/ should  do. Is  use  1 powder no mixing  and if i work past  the max numbers   check cases  for  signs  slowly. 

Quote from: jasonheimerm on April 13 2016 10:29:40 AM MDT
But they have  a  lot  more tools  and such to safely mix  powders and work  up  loads. And test  pressures  and such.

I don't think this is true for the boutique makers.  And the big boys for whom this would be true don't load to these levels.

Quote from: sqlbullet on April 13 2016 10:10:41 AM MDT

Quote from: The_Shadow on April 13 2016 09:57:07 AM MDT
they swear they don't exceed the SAAMI pressure values set for the cartridges

This has always been a source of mystery for me.  I don't buy into the idea that book loads are lawyer driven.  Too easy in the rifle section to get "sticky" extraction with max loads.  And several of the books publish pressure data.  For instance, 8.2 grains of Longshot under a 200 grain Horndady FMJ loaded 1.260" is 35,000 psi SAAMI pressure according to Hodgdon's website.  Yet, we know several makers exceed that load based on their pull down information.

It continues to perplex me a bit.  Is Hodgdon mis-representing the pressure.  Is it a computer derived value, not from actual testing, and therefore conservative.  Of have the makers carefully selected the rounds they send for testing so as to minimize statistical deviation, which would allow them a bit of latitude in their statements.

I think they (big manufacturers) test their loads in a chamber that has been machined to the minimum SAAMI specification/dimension, and they test at elevated temperatures to simulate what a cartridge might encounter if it was laying in the sun for several hours. At least that is what I would do. 

I don't understand the Colt Delta Elite situation. If the Colt can't handle SAAMI specification 10mm ammunition, it shouldn't have been sold to the public as a 10mm. If it can, Underwood is not making their ammo to SAAMI specs.


.

Cody Craig gave me some horrible customer service a while back. Told him about an issue with one of Underwood's offerings, and it seems he never did a thing about it.

I ordered more ammo to replace the "problem" ammo and I got more problems of the same lot.

Best to talk to Kevin Underwood personally.

Quote from: 4949shooter on April 13 2016 04:18:21 PM MDT
Cody Craig gave me some horrible customer service a while back. Told him about an issue with one of Underwood's offerings, and it seems he never did a thing about it.

I ordered more ammo to replace the "problem" ammo and I got more problems of the same lot.

Best to talk to Kevin Underwood personally.

Interesting.

 Yes I was on there site and I saw that they did drop about 50 fps across  there 10mm line up. I wished that they hadn't done that as I really like there products and I shoot a Delta Elite and NO PROBLEMS what so ever with there hot 180 gr loadings, I have had a few smileys faces with the 155 gr fmj but that's it.
If you want factory hot ammo I chrono some Sig 180 fmj and there moving out @ 1300+ fps out of my Colt and Kimber and you can get the stuff on sale @ Cables  once in awhile, the last 250 rds I got I paid like $21.00 a box of 50 and the stuff shoots great!!! That will be my go to for factory ammo now.

Sig Sauer Elite Performance 180gr FMJ Found loaded with BE-86  8.8 grains


Glock 29   3.78" Factory BBL velocity 1178    case expansion 0.4315"
Glock 20   4.60" Factory BBL velocity 1250    case expansion 0.4315"
Glock 20   4.60" Factory BBL velocity 1260    case expansion 0.4315"
S&W 1006 5.00" Factory BBL velocity 1276    case expansion 0.4265"
S&W 1006 5.00" Factory BBL velocity 1286    case expansion 0.4270"

The 1st Sig ammo I bought was Dec 23 2015 and that was under 1300 but over 1250 fps. Now the second bunch I bought was about 1 1/2 months ago and that lot hit over 1300 fps now maybe the weather had something to do with the high fps I don't know, all's I know is it shot fast and hit hard and I chrono pretty  everything I shoot.