Quote from: Geeman on February 14 2016 02:30:21 PM MST

Quote from: 4949shooter on February 14 2016 05:59:03 AM MST

Time to remove the tin hats, guys. State Troopers are just regular people like all of us. They aren't the KGB and they don't "assassinate" people. I have a hard time believing any of the nonsense in that article.

I've learned to take nothing spoon fed to me by any side.  Its important to know what you do not know.  I don't know what went down there.

That video sucks.  I believe that it sucks that bad because it has been degraded.  If that copter was in the air to capture that event, it would have been much higher quality.  What about the video from the vehicles, from the body cams with audio?  Does that make sense?

The first I heard (official sources) said three shots total were fired.  Some have said that nine rounds struck him.  Both cannot be true.  Was an independent autopsy performed?   What about an independent examination of the truck?  How many holes are in that?  Who gave the authorization for the take down?  What were the factors in making that decision?  Were those present all state police, a mix of fed and state, mostly fed, or who? 

I don't trust the government information.  They have outright lied way too many times for me to take their information seriously.  If there is nothing to hide, allow others the access to discover the facts independently. 

My gut tells me it was all about a man determining his own end.  He didn't want to die in a box, and he didn't. If this was an assassination, there would be no survivors.  At least these are my gut feelings, which are subject to change as facts become known.  The gut feeling might also change if information is suppressed by authorities. 

The protest wasn't without reason.  The Feds are generally not tolerant of those questioning their authority.  Their authority in this case (BLM abuse) was unconstitutional, and you won't convince me otherwise.  The redress available to average people is not sufficient, so what is the alternative.  The BLM wants that piece of ground and are prepared to get it at all cost.  A dead person, two landowners in prison on trumped up charges, and now several protesters in jail on federal charges, all in a day's work at the BLM.  They will get that land.  Do you have any doubt?  They have already filed first right of refusal on the property.

If our elected officials had our interests at heart, the BLM would be de-funded immediately. 

Greg

Exactly (in bold).

All the facts may not be out yet (and quite frankly they shouldn't be at this point) due to the investigation, which could take weeks or months.

To reiterate, I am just not buying the "assassination" bit.

Edit: That video might not be the best quality, but it certainly shows events were a lot different than alleged in the above link.

Quote from: my_old_glock on February 14 2016 12:17:55 PM MST

Quote from: 4949shooter on February 14 2016 05:59:03 AM MST
... State Troopers are just regular people like all of us. They aren't the KGB ...

(Off topic) Who exactly made up the Cheka, NKVD, KGB, etc? Was it giraffes, chimpanzees, elm trees, or people just like all of us?


.

I won't speak for you or anyone else, but it wasn't regular people like me that made up the KGB, etc.

Nice try though.

More video from inside the vehicle showing that they were shot at before the vehicle came to a stop...
http://www.youngcons.com/shocking-video-shows-oregon-protestor-being-shot-from-inside-vehicle/

Let see, first we were told 3 shots, then you could count them on both hands, then this video comes out....

When is the use of police force justified?

When is someone allowed to return fire when fired upon by law enforcement? 

Ruby Ridge, Waco, all over again. 

I don't hate law enforcement.  I have serious issues when public servants exceed their limits, and in this case the brain dead set up of an ambush killed someone that was going to harm no one.  They were also a bunch of dumb asses that were lucky they didn't kill themselves in crossfire.

BUT NO ONE WILL BE HELD TO ACCOUNT.....  That's the government way.

Turns my stomach and makes me mad. 

Greg

Yes Greg, when I studied the original poor quality release of the FBI video, I was seeing what looked like shots being fired into the vehicle prior to LaVoy coming to a stop...This stinks to the high heaven of a outright assassination!

This video proves that what I saw, was infact what I saw...Some careers should roll with those in command on that screen...

Quote from: The_Shadow on March 09 2016 05:56:47 PM MST
This stinks to the high heaven of a outright assassination!

I don't think that was the intent.  I don't believe that is the intent of a vast majority of police shootings.  I don't believe what happened in Waco was intended.  They just make really lousy decisions that force an escalation to the point it gets out of control.  I believe most police shootings are avoidable.  Split second decisions are made and are once made, cannot be undone.  Charge in before backup...  corner someone high on drugs instead of trying to calm things down...  push the fight reaction by removing a flight option. 

Cornering an animal is rarely a great idea.

De-escalation needs to be trained, and emphasized.  I believe you cannot seize control, but if you try too hard, you can certainly loose control.

Greg

The State Troopers' shooting was ruled justified.

The FBI SRT team shots are in question.

Video shows the moments before Oregon occupier LaVoy Finicum was killed: 'GO AHEAD AND SHOOT ME' — WARNING: GRAPHIC VIDEO

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-lavoy-finicum-final-moments-shooting-article-1.2568192