It's always better to have a totally trained Dog that won't approach or try to escape out the door. In a way since these people and Dog were on their own property, I was really expecting the lady coming out of the house to be coming with a shotgun to blast the Police. I know many people that would if you shot their Dog on their own property!

something was going on in the house that put the officer on edge even before he knocked. He was definately approaching for a reason other than an open car door, or had started to initially and upon getting near the front, something made him defensive.

Just as he crosses the first visible line in the sidewalk you can see his whole tactic change to a cautious defensive one. His knock on the door is almost timid. He was expecting something to happen. It is obvious he is paying close attention to the sounds he is hearing come from in the house.

Why a gun???  I can't think of a dog running through pepper spray.  Instead the officer is pumping rounds into a concrete surface with people in line for ricochets. 

I've been around dogs for just about my whole life.  I've been face to face with several that were threats, and never did I have to resort to anything that harmed one aside from a defensive blow or kick.  That dog was not a threat to life.  The officer's decision placed those people in that level of threat.  It was a really bad decision IMHO.

Greg

I suppose I'll be the evil one and state NEVER open you door to police, at least short of seeing a search warrant.  That would be one thing that would have prevented the dog from getting out.  For just an open door on a car, that could easily be communicated through the door. 

Police today are different from my earlier years.  More and more they are used as a cash generating scheme for governments that will never be satisfied with their current level of funding.  More and more they look at us as subjects or potential suspects when the truth is they are our servants.  More and more I see police making poor decisions that remove all other options other than the use of deadly force when things go wrong.  I blame the way they are currently trained. 

Greg

Quote from: tommac919 on October 23 2015 12:08:25 PM MDT

And do the citizens have more rights than the cops? Seems to me it should be equal.

I have liberty, and a full set of rights from God, and have possessed them as my birth right.  As I believe, I may do as I wish as long as what I do doesn't harm another person.  Very broad rights over a very small kingdom.

As soon as I contract with an employer, any employer, I no longer possess those rights while performing at the job.  I must do things as instructed.  I cannot come and go as I wish.  I have to interact with some individuals that I'd normally not choose to interact with.  I can quit to regain my prior status, but as long as I remain in employment, I am not free.  I am under contract.

Police are additionally restrained by contracts that restrict their bosses (governments) such as constitutions, statutes, laws, rules, and layers and layers of power structure above them.  The Police don't have more power over those that they stop.  They have much less.  They are much more restricted.  What complicates this even more is it the public being pulled over by the public servant. 

All the power rests with the people according to Locke.

Greg

Now days most cops are nut jobs. No decent person wants to be a cop. Look at what happened to Darren Wilson in Ferguson.

The cop was scared. The dog sensed it. The cop ran. The dog gave pursuit.

Why was the cop there anyways?


.

There are some in the mix who shouldn't be there.  In my department it ran about 10-20% that were bully's and couldn't de-escalate a situation.  Guys that probably had no real business with a badge and a gun.  Another 10% or so were way to timid to do the job.

That second group washes out fast.  Unfortunately all to often they get hurt.  Sometimes they get someone hurt with them.  I saw both.

The first group though, the process doesn't seem to get them washed out.  And if you have bureaucrats to don't understand the job making promotion decisions, they sometimes climb the ladder fast.

I still have lots of friends in LE, and I am grateful for the job they do.  But police officers have disproportionately more rights than citizens and that is wrong.

Curious the Ofc was not in uniform as well. Maybe on a task force, i don't know. Ran the tag, got address and was simply going to advise them. Me, i would secure door after a visual check for signs of criminal activity and if no signs, close door and move on. Dog owners have a responsibility as well to contain the dog from simply busting out the door from a simple knock. Back in the days of the knight stick,
it was out and under the arm in advance. But are PC enviorment today, that's not good perception. That would be agressive in appearance. Now the Ofc who's in full uniform with various tools might have handled this in a diff manner. I say might.

That dog would be alive today if the idiot owners would have been responsible and controlled it.

  True, but curious Dogs shoot out every so often unless they have had pretty advanced obedience training.  Although it's not the best thing, that's still the people's property (physical and Dog) and the officer really didn't need to be there (if the story is true).

So...Lets put a spin on this.

I am at home watching Arrow on Netflix.  My doorbell rings, and I go to answer it.  I carefully look through the peep-hole and see a causually dressed man with no identfying badge as a solicitor, who has a glock shaped bulge on his right hip.  As I open the door to see what is needed, my dog that I just rescued from the pound a few weeks earlier scurries out cause he likes the yard.

Before I can even register what is happening, my ears are ringing, my dog is dead and there is a man with a gun at the low ready in my yard.  Training takes over and I draw and fire two shots center mass at my would be killer, because why else would a stranger show up on my porch and kill my dog if he didn't mean me ill will.

Am I justified in this hypothetical.  And, yes, my state has a no-retreat castle doctrine.

Quote from: Intercooler on October 26 2015 05:18:24 PM MDT
  True, but curious Dogs shoot out every so often unless they have had pretty advanced obedience training.  Although it's not the best thing, that's still the people's property (physical and Dog) and the officer really didn't need to be there (if the story is true).

My dog is just as curious as the next, but I take steps to control him.

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 26 2015 05:53:40 PM MDT
So...Lets put a spin on this.

I am at home watching Arrow on Netflix.  My doorbell rings, and I go to answer it.  I carefully look through the peep-hole and see a causually dressed man with no identfying badge as a solicitor, who has a glock shaped bulge on his right hip.  As I open the door to see what is needed, my dog that I just rescued from the pound a few weeks earlier scurries out cause he likes the yard.

Before I can even register what is happening, my ears are ringing, my dog is dead and there is a man with a gun at the low ready in my yard.  Training takes over and I draw and fire two shots center mass at my would be killer, because why else would a stranger show up on my porch and kill my dog if he didn't mean me ill will.

Am I justified in this hypothetical.  And, yes, my state has a no-retreat castle doctrine.

Same thing happened at Ruby Ridge. The SWAT team opened up on a dog owned by Weavers, and Kevin Harris shot back, killing Deputy Marshal Degan.

Harris was charged with Degan's murder, and was later acquitted of the charges in court.

  I'm with sqlbullet. I think some over-stepping took place in this situation!

Quote from: Intercooler on October 26 2015 06:17:42 PM MDT
  I'm with sqlbullet. I think some over-stepping took place in this situation!

I agree! The owners overstepped their bounds by not controlling their dog!