That's just it... nobody out there period has the mental policy to get it done. We seem to be at the end of normal checks and balances!

My wife and I had a long conversation last night regarding mental health issues, screening for purchasing/carrying firearms, etc. My opinion is the same as Greg's "I think I'll go with 'shall not be infringed' and call it good." When government gets into it, there is always someone who is interpreting it different than others. Such as what is happening here in Florida and why some in our legislature are trying to pass a bill to allow open carry.

When government has access to areas of privacy such as mental health records, it can deter those who would normally seek help to skip that entirely. I speak from experience having been in the military where there was no doctor patient confidentiality at least when I was serving. As a Special Agent I had access to everyone's records with just a flash of my badge and their commanders had the same access. Very few wanted to seek out help as a result and when they did it sometimes led to a discharge or other consequences.

Not an easy solution and I'm not smart enough (nor is anyone else) to come up with a solution that solves everything. And, whether you believe it should be the government's responsibility to protect us or not, it is impossible to provide complete protection. Nor would we ever have the resources to provide it. It is our responsibility to protect our selves and our loved ones. That is why "shall not be infringed" was written.

Quote from: Pinsnscrews on October 08 2015 02:34:15 AM MDT
4) Stop Plea Bargaining Gun Violations. If an illegal drug user is caught in the course of transporting illegal drugs and has a gun in his possession at the time, or a burglar breaks into a home and steals a gun or is in posession of a gun at the time, include the gun charge, do not plea bargain it down. If a gun is one of the items stolen, Prosecute Properly, don't just write it off as "Theft if Personal Property."

Quote from: Geeman on October 08 2015 05:06:42 AM MDT
This...  Yes... as long as the gun is associated with a crime against people of their property, the full weight of the law should be brought to bear against the  wrongdoer.

Greg

I have to disagree in general with gun add-ons to crime.  Giving one tool special status over another in the commission of a crime makes that specific tool a target for legislative control.

Having a gun when I do something bad doesn't make what I did worse.  And having an add-on creates a perception that just having a gun is bad.  We should get rid of these laws, not insist on enforcement.

I guess as it relates to little kids, that means a teacher

Prevention usually starts with some level of education (this is general, not necessarily a schooling).

In order to resolve a concern/issue I like to look at history to see if these events occurred then and what was attempted to correct it then, then identify if it worked then.

Bottom line, things that happen back 200 years happen today. Not sure about the data surrounding them because back then, retaining or creating these records were not as critical. However, just from my prior anecdotal readings, there were mass violence/killings and mental illness concerns back then, continuing through today.

What is the cure? My personal belief is not involving the federal government more. The is a dangerous slippery slope and I'm afraid we are on that slope now. The root cause is not the tool, i.e. firearm, knife, baseball bat etc etc. The cause dwells as a more internal personal issue. Exposing/identifying that behavior is a problem and there is no testing or evaluating that will work for the masses; mainly because those administrating it will have biases and each individual's personality is different; example...each persons' level of pain is different, my pain level of 5 may a pain level of 12 for another. So, having a paid bureaucrat determine the mental state is wrong....if the paid bureaucrat is anti-gun......where do you think their bias will be.

I do believe society has a role, moreover, the person's homelife plays a part and this is where it should start. There is no silver bullet or two silver bullets.

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 08 2015 08:36:25 AM MDT

Quote from: Pinsnscrews on October 08 2015 02:34:15 AM MDT
4) Stop Plea Bargaining Gun Violations. If an illegal drug user is caught in the course of transporting illegal drugs and has a gun in his possession at the time, or a burglar breaks into a home and steals a gun or is in posession of a gun at the time, include the gun charge, do not plea bargain it down. If a gun is one of the items stolen, Prosecute Properly, don't just write it off as "Theft if Personal Property."

Quote from: Geeman on October 08 2015 05:06:42 AM MDT
This...  Yes... as long as the gun is associated with a crime against people of their property, the full weight of the law should be brought to bear against the  wrongdoer.

Greg

I have to disagree in general with gun add-ons to crime.  Giving one tool special status over another in the commission of a crime makes that specific tool a target for legislative control.

Having a gun when I do something bad doesn't make what I did worse.  And having an add-on creates a perception that just having a gun is bad.  We should get rid of these laws, not insist on enforcement.

The Law is already on the books. Start prosecuting it and watch what effect it has on petty crimes involving guns. If the General Populace wants to hold Gun Owners to Higher Standards, then hold Criminals that use Guns to the Higher Standards you already have on the books. They Gun Control people claim all the time how easy it is to get guns illegally. Because the criminals are not worried about the consequences. They can take a stolen gun from one crime and take it with them for the next crime. As long as they don't actually discharge the gun, they get a slap on the wrist and the gun charges get dropped? Hell No. That Encourages them to keep doing it.

The gun control people are using fringe events to attack core civil rights.  I won't concede to their logic and will continue to campaign to have enhancers removed from the law.

And not just for guns.  I don't care for alcohol add-ons for traffic violations.  What difference does it make if you were distracted because you chose to drink or because you chose to tune the radio, or text, or day dream.

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 08 2015 12:57:55 PM MDT
And not just for guns.  I don't care for alcohol add-ons for traffic violations.  What difference does it make if you were distracted because you chose to drink or because you chose to tune the radio, or text, or day dream.

Politically obsequious crime "enhancers" are very in vogue these days.  Cheap way for politicians to claim they're doing something...  So now an assault and battery or murder is EXTRA bad and punishable offense because the victim may have been in a "protected" class or group. 
According to these laws, some citizens deserve extra PROTECTION...which no doubt serves as a major deterrent to the neighborhood psychopath bent on causing as much meyhem as possible.

Guys;


I knew this would spark excellent discussion and input.  For me personally, since my wife is a teacher, I see this in two related but separate worlds:


1) schools
2) everywhere else


I personally think (deep thought here), that the ultimate/systemic root of these problems is true, pure EVIL at work.  Yes, as in, Satan.  No one human will address that.  Short of root causes, which several have discussed very well here, I am most immediately interested in the K-12 school problem.


We have money to throw at education, almost at-will.  Why not spend a TINY part of that for metal detectors?  Also, at least here in central Ohio, many of the high school districts have uniformed police officers present all day.  Violence since this was enacted has reduced in the high schools where officers are present.  I know that is expensive but I think security costs are worth it.  Hell, take some of the MANY millions of $$'s spent on school busing to fund it if needed.


The truth is, teachers feel absolutely helpless.  They feel they are sitting ducks just waiting for the next incident.  Every week they practice lock-down and active-shooter drills with their students (middle school).


I am dating myself, but I remember as a boy in elementary and junior high school doing "air raid" drills in the event of nuclear war (which for everyone was a matter of when, not IF).  I was scared out of mind.  My wife said most of her kids are scared daily now too.  This is pathetic.


Does anyone have actual statistics on the correlation between shootings in "gun-free" zones vs. other areas?  I heard someone talk about this on talk radio recently but don't know if they had actual facts.


Additionally, I think parents should be held 100% as accountable for not having guns totally locked up from their children.  The parents bought the guns or are storing them; making them accessible (wasn't Sandy Hook that way) to anyone either living OR coming into their home.  No warnings, make it a serious crime on incident one.  Perhaps that might reduce some of the school stuff.


Tough topic but adults have to be responsible and the schools are by and large treating these incidents STILL, like they are one-offs, rather than preparing for them and being pre-emptive.


Just my thoughts and opinions.  Like everything else, no quick or easy fix.  I just don't want the left to have anything more to attack than they already have. (circa, Germany, 1935).


Pat

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 08 2015 08:36:25 AM MDT

I have to disagree in general with gun add-ons to crime.  Giving one tool special status over another in the commission of a crime makes that specific tool a target for legislative control.

Having a gun when I do something bad doesn't make what I did worse.  And having an add-on creates a perception that just having a gun is bad.  We should get rid of these laws, not insist on enforcement.

I suppose I should have been more clear.  I'm a common law type libertarian.  Common law requires a harmed party, and government cannot be a harmed party.  Compensation is due to that harmed party.  If a gun is used as a tool to harm someone, that is certainly a factor.  Armed robbery vs robbery.  Rape, assault, home invasion...  All of these type crimes should allow for the aggravated circumstance of a lethal weapon used in committing the crime. 

I could care less if someone does drugs, drinks, smokes, or other activity that causes themselves harm.  It doesn't harm me, so what.  I know people at two or three times the "legal" limit of alcohol that would easily drive better than my ex-wife could stone cold sober. 

Greg

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 07 2015 09:08:56 PM MDT
Other things to keep in mind.

While gun violence is higher in the US than most industrialized countries, violent crime rates are not out of line with some other industrialized countries. The media tends to fixate on gun violence, as it is somehow worse to be shot to death than beaten to death. (personally, shoot me).

Also, homicides in the US are the lowest they have been in a very long time.  You hear about them more due to the national nature of even local news, primarily due to better communications infrastructure.

And, raggedyman definitely makes a point I agree with.  Not the governments place to provide safety.  They investigate and prosecute crime, and rehabilitate those convicted, but do not, should not and cannot prevent crime and protect liberty.  The two are mutually exclusive.

I believe that the only legitimate role of government is to defend the rights of its citizens.

What about that really serious weapon................... the car?  Don't we need more laws to combat bad driving? 


Pat

Modern advances in medicine and social justice have removed the only solution to every problem we acknowledge today. The end result is always the same, in nature and in eras of civilizations. That balancing factor [solution] was Darwinism.

Use the money spent on Planned Parenthood for dealing with mental health issues. If we can help people and assist them in turning their lives around by addressing mental health issues before they get out of hand, the sporadic shootings at colleges and other establishments will likely be reduced.

Address the issue early and "head the problem off at the pass".

1.To curb accidental gun related injuries and deaths in children: In addition to making gun storage and child education about guns a prominent part of any gun related training course there needs to be a basic safety education starting in kindergarten. It should start with "Guns are not for children" being drummed into them and eventually, maybe by middle school or a little earlier, the safe handling of a gun being added to the don't touch.

2. To stop gun use in crimes, enforce the laws on the books! No plea bargaining for anyone using a gun to commit a crime. Lock them up 10 years minimum. Longer if they actually pull the trigger.

3. Make certain dangerous potential psychiatric records, not necessarily in detail, just a go or no go by a mental health professional, a part of the existing background check.

4. Children with behavioral problems in school should be evaluated on a regular basis. Might mean more than a school nurse being necessary.