Quote from: REDLINE on July 23 2012 02:25:43 AM MDT
I wish the floating bullet seating stem didn't put rings on the top of my bullets but guess I'll have to live with rings on top of my bullets. :'(

Couple things...

First, the rings... I just want to clarify, your saying they appear only after crimping or after seating?
  IF after seating, its the nature of the design. You could "break" the sharp edge inside the die and eliminate the issue.
  IF after crimping, could be too long OAL... Cause as I say, the crimps are hardly noticeable... The only way to impress a ring in the bullet it would need to be touching it... If from crimping only.. why is it touching the bullet, with this design it should not. UNLESS the OAL is a bit long. This would/could be your problem.

CW


Second, The crimps are very mild, they are hardly noticeable.

Third, those case mouths do not show burrs, but are sharp, try a couple de-durred and see what this does. (If anything)

Quote from: cwlongshot on July 23 2012 03:38:17 AM MDT

Quote from: REDLINE on July 23 2012 02:25:43 AM MDT
I wish the floating bullet seating stem didn't put rings on the top of my bullets but guess I'll have to live with rings on top of my bullets. :'(

Couple things...

First, the rings... I just want to clarify, your saying they appear only after crimping or after seating?
  IF after seating, its the nature of the design. You could "break" the sharp edge inside the die and eliminate the issue.
  IF after crimping, could be too long OAL... Cause as I say, the crimps are hardly noticeable... The only way to impress a ring in the bullet it would need to be touching it... If from crimping only.. why is it touching the bullet, with this design it should not. UNLESS the OAL is a bit long. This would/could be your problem.

CW

I don't know since I'm seating and crimping at the same time.  I could set the die to not crimp and see how if the rings still turn up.  As for a sharp edge in the seater stem, there really isn't one as you can see from the pics.  It's kind of like domed inside.  I wonder if when the crimp stage begins to take place, maybe the travel being used for crimp is forcing the seater stem into the bullet that doesn't want to seat and further down, leaving sort of a scored circle.  OAL is exactly 1.260" like the book load called for.  I measured all of them.

QuoteSecond, The crimps are very mild, they are hardly noticeable.

Third, those case mouths do not show burrs, but are sharp, try a couple de-durred and see what this does. (If anything)

Yeah, I pretty much just wanted to get rid of the flare from the expander die, nothing more.  The XTP bullets are .400" and the brass at the case mouth is .011"-.0115", so crimping to just get rid of the flare (I was expanding the case mouths to .428") leaves me with the .4225" - .423" I crimped to.  And SAAMI spec is .423" so I felt pretty good with that.  Some of the factory loads I measured did dip down into the .421" - .422" range.  What crimp measurement do you do yours to with jacketed bullets?

I'll have to get a deburring tool and try what you said.  Wish I had one to try right now.

Quote from: cwlongshot on July 23 2012 03:38:17 AM MDT
You could "break" the sharp edge inside the die and eliminate the issue.

After reviewing my pics just now I believe you are exactly correct.  I was thinking the bullets were contacting the seater stem inside the dome.  Evidently they are not and they are contacting on the sharp edge around the dome.

Redline, I use the same die set with my RCBS press. I had to use the seating piece for flat nose bullets to get rid of the 'rings' on Hornady XTP bullets. I felt the concave shape of the other seating piece just didn't 'fit' the shape of the bullet so to speak. I crimp in a separate step using a Lee factory crimp die.

Quote from: EdMc on July 23 2012 06:26:01 AM MDT
Redline, I use the same die set with my RCBS press. I had to use the seating piece for flat nose bullets to get rid of the 'rings' on Hornady XTP bullets. I felt the concave shape of the other seating piece just didn't 'fit' the shape of the bullet so to speak. I crimp in a separate step using a Lee factory crimp die.

Did you ever use the Hornady die I'm using to crimp?

If so did there seem to be an issue with the die wanting to keep the loaded round, fighting you to get it back?

Just got off the phone with Lonnie Hummel at Hornady Mfg. Co. about this crimp issue.

He assured me that what I described should not even remotely be happening.  After asking me a few questions Lonnie told me it was nothing I did and was clearly a fault of the die.  He asked me to send this die set back and they would virtually immediately get a new die set out to me or fix the one I have.

Considering the issue so far, I'm happy.  Sucks that it happened at all, but since they are being 100% cordial about it I'm not going to sweat it assuming the issue ends up being resolved with the replacement set.  I'll report back on how the replacement die set does after I get it.

I loaded a small number of rds to test some loads using one-step seating and crimping. Did not have the problem you described. When loading some others later I increased the crimp amount and deformed a case. I'd bought the Lee FCD for total resizing by then, so I just began seating the bullets with the Hornady die and using the Lee die for crimping. I've seen/read the recommendation to crimp as a separate step in numerous places. I want to say Lyman recommends this and doesn't sell dies that do both. I could be wrong.....

Quote from: EdMc on July 23 2012 06:26:01 AM MDT
Redline, I use the same die set with my RCBS press. I had to use the seating piece for flat nose bullets to get rid of the 'rings' on Hornady XTP bullets. I felt the concave shape of the other seating piece just didn't 'fit' the shape of the bullet so to speak. I crimp in a separate step using a Lee factory crimp die.

Silly me!  I didn't realize that the other seating piece was in the die box till I removed the small foam pad it is stored under.  I just thought that foam piece was there, for I don't know what.

Anyway, when I get the replacement set from Hornady I'll know and use it.

Quote from: EdMc on July 23 2012 12:59:59 PM MDT
I loaded a small number of rds to test some loads using one-step seating and crimping. Did not have the problem you described.

Was there any resistance in the least?  Or was it that after the crimp stage (seating and crimping at the same time) they dropped back down from the die via press handle operation with no resistance at all?

Glad you have figured out the issue. Sounds great with the CS @ Hornady too! Kudos to them.

You should be good to go shortly.

CW

"Was there any resistance in the least?"

Just a little on the down stroke as the crimp is applied and nothing of note on the release or up stroke.  I do like the split ring locking nut on the Hornady dies. Good to hear of their customer service, as I also use one of their case trimmers (for.308) as well. Stick with it and you'll find reloading to be a rewarding pastime.

Quote from: cwlongshot on July 24 2012 03:25:01 AM MDT
Glad you have figured out the issue. Sounds great with the CS @ Hornady too! Kudos to them.

You should be good to go shortly.

CW

Shortly sure does seem like eternity right now.

Quote from: EdMc on July 24 2012 06:28:03 AM MDT
"Was there any resistance in the least?"

Just a little on the down stroke as the crimp is applied and nothing of note on the release or up stroke.  I do like the split ring locking nut on the Hornady dies. Good to hear of their customer service, as I also use one of their case trimmers (for.308) as well. Stick with it and you'll find reloading to be a rewarding pastime.

That's what I was hoping you'ld come back with.  Talk about a nightmare I just went through during my very first handloading experience.

No question I expect a rewarding pastime shortly.   

Quote from: REDLINE on July 23 2012 02:25:43 AM MDT
I wish the floating bullet seating stem didn't put rings on the top of my bullets but guess I'll have to live with rings on top of my bullets. :'(

I had the same issues using a seating/crimping die.  It deformed my HPs, gave inconsistent OAL, took excessive force to operate, and on occasion would buckle brass.  Got tired of it, and started seating and crimping in different steps with different dies.  No more issues

I'm curious to find out the consistency of the dies I'm using.  Well, when Hornady gets a working die set back to me that is.  The 10 rounds I loaded so far with the bad die set were 100% consistent.  Hopefully I can get through more than 10 sometime sooner than later.