Quote from: HammersD on September 04 2014 03:11:59 PM MDT
Red Baron,

I wanted to add this to start with: you are correct and I absolutely agree on the apples to apples, but both cartridges use the same .355 bullet.  The 357sig has more case volume for powder, thus has a higher velocity potential.  All I was pointing out was that there are 9mm rounds available to purchase that meet the ballistics of the standard .357sig rounds (obviously you need to know the capabilities of your firearm to be safe shooting +p+ rounds).  I am not looking for a which is better argument, but rather simply stating and showing that the same bullet shot from either cartridge with the same velocity and bullet weight have a very high probability of inflicting the same damage, whether in gel or flesh. 

Isn't this what makes the 10mm round so versatile?  You can get a light, super fast round or a big, slower round that suits your desires or needs.  It is comforting for me to have 14+ rounds of 41 magnum like power.  I don't have to have nuclear rounds loaded, but I can and this is also why most people on this board were happy to see Federal come out with the 180 Vital Shok with a good velocity that made it a true 10mm round.  Again, I am not saying they are apples to apples, but e=mc2.

Remember, I am not looking to argue and that is what makes this forum the place I go to.

Jon

No problemo.......I'm not arguing which is best either, but many try to make the case that one doesn't need a 357sig; you can get the same from some 9mm loads. This is partially true; however, most will not shoot a box of that stuff through their gun during their lifetime. My target loads are a 1300 fps, which is fairly close to high end 9mm. My carry loads are at 1475+.

I love the 357sig and 10mm round for their high-end out-put in a semi-automatic hand gun; plus their ammo versatility too. Is one better than the other...that depends on the one's preference. I have a G26 that is carried sometimes; I float between loads, 125gr or 147gr, depending on the year. I will let each person make the determination that is best for them by letting the data speak for itself. There are some who don't want those high end loads, that is fine.

I have to admit, I interpreted your comments as the 9mm is equal or better to the 357sig; hence my response. I don't advocate one is 'better' than the other; but when I here/see the comparisons, I just like to point out apples to apples.

My apologies if I came across a bit rude.....it wasn't my intention...it was just to match apples to apples.

I appreciate the civility. 

Quote from: redbaron007 on September 04 2014 01:31:47 PM MDT


Apples to Apples.....the 357sig out performs the 9mm in every case.

Now, if you want to compare max loads to semi-max loads, feel free; but when apples to apples....the sig exceeds 9mm every time.

How about cost per round to shoot/practice. 



.

357 Sig Brass has been much easier and much cheaper for me to find to reload. As in:

$28 per 250 for once used brass for 357 sig
vs
$60 per 250 for once used brass for 10mm

Bullets are slightly cheaper by a buck or two for 9mm vs 40 cal bullets.

That said I do prefer 10mm.

Pre-Loaded ammo about the same cost.

Quote from: my_old_glock on September 04 2014 06:00:43 PM MDT

Quote from: redbaron007 on September 04 2014 01:31:47 PM MDT


Apples to Apples.....the 357sig out performs the 9mm in every case.

Now, if you want to compare max loads to semi-max loads, feel free; but when apples to apples....the sig exceeds 9mm every time.

How about cost per round to shoot/practice. 



.

Is cost a part of performance? 

Guys;

The 357 sig round IS expensive, but so is the 10mm.  IF cost is a major issue for someone, which is totally understandable these days, then the 9mm or 22 is a better choice than EITHER the 357 sig OR 10mm.

I think we all know the number one criteria for stopping power is shot placement.  I personally dislike the 9mm but that is my own personal opinion and feeling.  I perfectly respect anyone else's preferences and choices.

So far, as far as I know, THAT is still legal in our slowly fading/dying democracy/republic.........(sigh )

Best,

Pat

Quote from: redbaron007 on September 04 2014 03:36:54 PM MDT

Quote from: HammersD on September 04 2014 03:11:59 PM MDT
Red Baron,

I wanted to add this to start with: you are correct and I absolutely agree on the apples to apples, but both cartridges use the same .355 bullet.  The 357sig has more case volume for powder, thus has a higher velocity potential.  All I was pointing out was that there are 9mm rounds available to purchase that meet the ballistics of the standard .357sig rounds (obviously you need to know the capabilities of your firearm to be safe shooting +p+ rounds).  I am not looking for a which is better argument, but rather simply stating and showing that the same bullet shot from either cartridge with the same velocity and bullet weight have a very high probability of inflicting the same damage, whether in gel or flesh. 

Isn't this what makes the 10mm round so versatile?  You can get a light, super fast round or a big, slower round that suits your desires or needs.  It is comforting for me to have 14+ rounds of 41 magnum like power.  I don't have to have nuclear rounds loaded, but I can and this is also why most people on this board were happy to see Federal come out with the 180 Vital Shok with a good velocity that made it a true 10mm round.  Again, I am not saying they are apples to apples, but e=mc2.

Remember, I am not looking to argue and that is what makes this forum the place I go to.

Jon

No problemo.......I'm not arguing which is best either, but many try to make the case that one doesn't need a 357sig; you can get the same from some 9mm loads. This is partially true; however, most will not shoot a box of that stuff through their gun during their lifetime. My target loads are a 1300 fps, which is fairly close to high end 9mm. My carry loads are at 1475+.

I love the 357sig and 10mm round for their high-end out-put in a semi-automatic hand gun; plus their ammo versatility too. Is one better than the other...that depends on the one's preference. I have a G26 that is carried sometimes; I float between loads, 125gr or 147gr, depending on the year. I will let each person make the determination that is best for them by letting the data speak for itself. There are some who don't want those high end loads, that is fine.

I have to admit, I interpreted your comments as the 9mm is equal or better to the 357sig; hence my response. I don't advocate one is 'better' than the other; but when I here/see the comparisons, I just like to point out apples to apples.

My apologies if I came across a bit rude.....it wasn't my intention...it was just to match apples to apples.

I appreciate the civility.

no problem.  The interpretation of the written word is by far one of the most difficult things in life and likely why a lot of us are on this forum.  There is no body language to see or inflection heard by the listener.  I like the civility on here and if I was actually advocating that the 9mm and the .357sig are equal, then I should get a written or verbal slap.  in fact, the 357sig peeked my interest when I finally got to a point in my life that I was financially able to enter the world of firearms.  at that time in 2013, the 9mm was simply more cost effective for range time ammo and enough self defense for my bedside table with the 17 rd mags.  This is why I love the G20 and 10mm platform in general.  I can just get a 357sig conversion barrel and go see what the cartridge is all about.

I love this forum, all the people more knowledgeable than me on here and the respectful way people treat each other.  thank you all

Jon

OH BTW!  If anyone has any 357Sig rounds they wish to document here on the forum...Really looking for SwampFox 357Sig or even any other SwampFox ammo to document to preserve what was used back then by Mike Willard.  Double Tap would be nice to do and I did an Underwood 125 FMJ.

I have documented an Underwood 357Sig loading http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-357sig-125gr-bonded-fmj-pull-down/

I have had good luck with cast bullets from mine

357 SIG
Lyman 125.0 gr CHP Dia. 0.356"
Blue Dot   10.0 gr
Winchester WSP primer
COAL 1.1350"
Velocity    1200   fps 3.78" bbl


I also load a LEE 120 grain TC that shoots well.

My P239 was my first "modern" pistol I purchased.  Love the .357 Sig round.  Had I been aware of the 10mm at the time though I might never had went that way.

As far as expense of rounds go you have to hand load, really.  Otherwise you wouldn't shooting 10mm either.  My most expensive reloads, for any caliber, are still half as much as the cheapest bulk ammo out there, including disposable aluminum and steel cases, and Berdan primed stuff.