Odd problem with RIA 10mm

Started by Beepy, October 04 2013 11:48:27 AM MDT

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Beepy

So, have been jonesing for this pistol for the last year.... Finally got the money saved up and picked it up  (VZ tacticall II)  Lovely!!  Went out and shot it.  Almost every round the slide would lock back, though it was the mag release, but it was not engaging.  A heavy rap on the back of the slide would usually have it go back into battery.  It thought it was just the way 1911's are at first.  After 3 mags (of Armscor factory ammo) I dedicded to field strip it.  Got the slide off but the recoil guide rod, spring and reverse bushing would not budge.  It took a couple of smacks on the recoil rod on the muzzle end to break it free so the assembly could be removed.

Close inspection showed that the rearward portion of the dust cover of the slide and the retaining lip on the reverse bushing were peening together causing the whole assembly to lock together.  After 3 mags it has peened enough that I couldn't even put the recoil assembly back into the slide.

Anyone have this problem before.  Its pretty odd, I have never heard of it and I have done some searching and can't find anything on it.

In anycase, RIA sent out an RMA and its on its way back, they quoted 3 weeks.  Maybe they will change the ambi safety to just a Right handed safety... (I wrote a little note asking please please.... :)  If they don't I already have a safety to install, just need to get the correct length sear pin.....

sqlbullet


The_Shadow

Beepy, that condition does seem odd, and you are better off letting RIA make you a satisfied customer!  It seems that there is something that is not quite machined to the right tolerance to move freely at the full recoil travel!
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
NRA Life Member
Southeast, LoUiSiAna

Beepy

Sorry, no pics.  Its in a box on its way to Armscor......  I was looking at it thinking that I could file all the peened material at first, but there is something not quite right so off to RIA

Bugs66

I have an RIA 10mm.  Fun to shoot and accurate, however every 5th round or so locks the slide back.  Tried standard 10mm (Armscor etc) and Underwood. Doesn't make any difference.  What is the best spring to put in this to achieve reliability?  Does anyone have this gun dialed in yet?

The_Shadow

First is what about your grip, could you be riding the slide stop with you hands?  ???
It could be a bounce induced by recoil and may not be indicative of the recoil system...

Take some firm grip shots, insuring your hand is not touching the slide stop even in recoil.  If you still get slide lock it it may be something else.  :-\
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
NRA Life Member
Southeast, LoUiSiAna

gandog56

Limp wrist can be checked by having someone else try to fire it. You say it's your first 1911. Have you shot any other semi auto pistols?

Although your problem seems to be the manufacturing.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

Mike_Fontenot

Quote from: gandog56 on December 15 2013 07:36:12 AM MST
Limp wrist can be checked by having someone else try to fire it.

I still haven't decided yet if I limp-wristing is a problem with my 10mm Kimber Eclipse Custom II (full-size, all-steel) or not.  I still get occasional failures-to-chamber (usually bullet up, against the top-rear of the barrel, stovepipes), and also occasional premature lockbacks (which COULD be caused by the fact that I prefer to have my strong thumb floating out in the air, away from the grip panel).  I've been shooting with both very firm and very relaxed grips, to see if the failure rate differs for those two grips.  I shoot DoubleTap 150gr, 180gr, and 200gr JHP's (mixed together in each mag).

My preference is definitely to use a very relaxed grip ... MUCH less of a jolt, and more accurate for me.  My suspicion has been that my 10mm's slide cycles so quickly that grip doesn't matter, but I might be wrong, since almost everyone believes that a very firm grip works best.  I'm just going to keep testing both, and maybe eventually I'll know for sure.
 

The_Shadow

Slide velocities do have an affect on the way these things work or don't work.  The recoil spring rate and other items on the 1911 styles will work to control the forces of the slide impulse.  But checking other factors that may be induced by the shooter is the first step.

A change in ammunition, with less impulse may show some better results, the DT and UW ammo runs with very high recoil impulses.  Using something like CCI blazer or Remington with less impulse to test with may help determine function issues are ammo related.

When S&W was developing their 10xx series the found the the slide lock was actually bouncing, in the slow motion play back video.  They made the locking notch slightly bigger to eliminate that issue according to what I read.
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
NRA Life Member
Southeast, LoUiSiAna

Bugs66

After some more Bing searches, I came across this and will try some filing because I have a little copper on my slide stop:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=374990

I tried different ammo and believe my grip was fairly firm.  I do shoot left handed, so not sure if I am inducing the slide lock or not.  Hopefully a little filing will cure this.

Mike_Fontenot

Quote from: Bugs66 on December 15 2013 12:19:36 PM MST
After some more Bing searches, I came across this and will try some filing because I have a little copper on my slide stop:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=374990


Good find ... that DOES indicate that the inner slide-stop lobe was pushed up by a cooper-jacketed bullet.  Contact with that lobe by the bullet can also (in addition to a too-large lobe) be caused by very wide-nosed bullets, and also by the magazine design, or by a too-weak mag spring.

The_Shadow

#11
Have you tried a different magazine?  I'd eliminate other factors before cutting metal!  :o
There was some discussion of placing the magazine inside the frame with the slide removed and the slide stop in place to check function and bullet placement.
The magazine's lips may be spread out, sometimes they need to be reshaped, rolled back into place.
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
NRA Life Member
Southeast, LoUiSiAna

denclaste

As soon as got mine I fully cleaned it; then I installed a 28# mainspring, 18# recoil spring, and Wilson flat bottom firing pin stop. I have not had any problems except the low earth orbit brass. I'm using Metalform mags from RIA. CMC Shooting Star mags would not work at all; continually refused to lock back. Mine eats all ammo I've used so far. I've run Hornady,Sierra,Nosler,and PowerBond bullets at up to 1293fps with Starline brass. Now close to a thousand rounds. RIA is absolutely great to deal with; they changed out the ambi safety on mine under warranty and payed shipping both ways. I'm happy.

Bugs66

I have tried different mags, the included (Metalform?) 8rd mag as well as new Tripp Research Cobra 8rd mags (very nice).  No difference.  Tonight I put a feeler gauge between the smallest gap of the slide lock and a typical 10mm round nose FMJ.  A .002 feeler gauge barely fit.  I filed away at least .002 more to increase.  Will see how that goes on next trip to range.

I also have a stock Colt Govt. 45.  I looked over that and see quite a bit more clearance on the slide stop than the RIA 10mm gives.

Thanks all for tips and advice.

Mike_Fontenot

#14
Quote from: Bugs66 on December 15 2013 10:20:49 PM MST

I also have a stock Colt Govt. 45.  I looked over that and see quite a bit more clearance on the slide stop than the RIA 10mm gives.


That IS amazing!  The .45ACP bullet radius is a lot larger than the 10mm radius.  And the .45ACP overall cartridge length is supposedly slightly greater than for the 10mm cartridge.  One would THINK that the clearance would be noticeably larger in the 10mm.

Did you happen to measure the clearance with a 10mm Gold Dot JHP bullet?  That bullet seemed to have the widest nose of anything I ever shot, and I've always suspected it would be the one most prone to premature slide-lockback.