Considering the times we live in, and the nut jobs that abound, these horrible acts of violence will likely continue. The left needs to understand, legislating away our 2 Amendment rights will cure nothing except tying the hands of law abiding citizens. As for a fix to lesson these heinous acts, three things come to mind
1. Punish criminals accordingly, and then keep them in jail
2. Initiate serious mental health programs
3. Have trained and armed personnel everywhere

If there was an army of armed folks stationed around this country in public places, these folks might think a little harder before doing these things.

As a high school teacher, I surely do wish more states allowed us to carry concealed.  The state I teach in allows us to have our firearm in a locked car on school grounds but that might as well be in the next county if I needed it to protect my students.  I could not run to my car in a lockdown situation as I would be required to be corralling my students into position and keeping them calm.  I forget where I read it now but I read a study that claimed even 5% of teachers being armed translates to 80% less casualties in school shootings.  Imagine if 15% or 25% were armed.

Absolutely, plus, this is a heart problem, not a gun problem

Evening JBS27572, it?s interesting that you mentioned being a teacher. I left my IT career a year and a half ago due to a Covid related displacement, and thought I?d just retire, well my wife had other thoughts on that. Long story short, I took a 2ed shift cleaning job at our local school district to finish up before retiring. I didn?t know this until today, but there?s a little known secret that is really not publicized, Minnesota teachers and staff can carry with the proper training, and hope to speak with the superintendent tomorrow 😀

Quote from: Kenk on April 10 2023 09:20:26 PM MDT
Evening JBS27572, it?s interesting that you mentioned being a teacher. I left my IT career a year and a half ago due to a Covid related displacement, and thought I?d just retire, well my wife had other thoughts on that. Long story short, I took a 2ed shift cleaning job at our local school district to finish up before retiring. I didn?t know this until today, but there?s a little known secret that is really not publicized, Minnesota teachers and staff can carry with the proper training, and hope to speak with the superintendent tomorrow 😀

Before I retired I was asked casually by several teachers and other staff if I would be willing to carry in my school. My concern was that I would be left out to dry if anything did actually happen. It never went past that.

If you are allowed to do this, I would suggest that you get it in writing that the district is completely responsible for any civil actions that could be taken against you. Hypothetically, you could end up saving the day and still be sued by some kids parents because their ears are ringing, etc. Shady people and money grabs these days know no bounds.

True I suppose but I would still rather be sued than be dead or my students be dead.

Thanks Graybeard, that?s a really good point regarding potential civil actions. I know there are 4 others at the high school that carry, but don?t have any idea who they are. The whole thing is really hush hush, kind of like carrying in general at the schools, it?s like the libs want it, but don?t want anyone to know they want it 😂

Quote from: JBS27572 on April 11 2023 03:30:46 PM MDT
True I suppose but I would still rather be sued than be dead or my students be dead.

I agree with you. It was my experience that the district I worked in was underinsured because of laziness or incompetence and it came to light several times. It wasn't a poor performing or financially poor district, either. I'm a ducks in a row, in advance, kind of person.

Quote from: Kenk on April 11 2023 03:53:13 PM MDT
Thanks Graybeard, that?s a really good point regarding potential civil actions. I know there are 4 others at the high school that carry, but don?t have any idea who they are. The whole thing is really hush hush, kind of like carrying in general at the schools, it?s like the libs want it, but don?t want anyone to know they want it 😂

Seems like poor planning to not know who the other folks that are supposed to be carrying are. Identifying the bad guy is priority #1. Not knowing if a shooter is a disgruntled staff member or a good guy trying to intervene is pretty important when seconds count. Not getting shot by one of the others is equally important, too.

As a response the Kenk's original list, i would have to say No, kinda, Maybe

The USA incarceration rate per capita is ten to twenty times that of our peer nations.  If putting people in jail helped crime, we would have no crime. The war on drugs, mandatory sentencing, and three strikes laws have not only filled our prisons, but given people with recoverable mistakes a crash course on how to be a criminal.  And housing prisoners is costly; money that could be spent helping our society in other, better ways.

I agree that we need to do something about mental health.  But, I am not sure that more programs is the answer, or the only answer.  We need better health care coverage in general.  We need doctors to step up during check-ups with asking every patient to complete exploratory mental health questionnaires. I think since "Obamacare" every plan is required to cover mental health with parity to physical health, but I don't know many people who actually have ever seen a therapist.  Rather than starting out with new programs, I think we need a campaign to get people comfortable that mental health care is just as important, maybe more important that physical health care.  No one thinks twice about taking metformin if their pancreas is under performing, or an ACE inhibitor if their blood pressure is high.  But suggest they take an SSRI and people have a very visceral reaction that they are fine, thanks (or at least that is the reaction I struggle with).

I have always been proud of the fact the USA streets aren't home to roaming uniforms with actual assault weapons.  I have traveled the world a fair bit and it is always a bit jarring to see the Gendarmerie walking around with a FAMAS or G36K on the streets.  I have two additional concerns with "arming up".  I wonder if the money wouldn't be better spend in a way that keeps people from taking desperate actions.  Better jobs programs, up-skilling, etc.  And I fear that the truly lost would start to turn to more immediate and high impact attack vectors that are not to be stopped by mean with guns.  Vehicular bombs and chemical attacks are very reachable and would not be stopped by a well armed security force at the entrance.

Most of all the times are are living in are manufactured by very complicated social and economic factors.  Complex problems cannot be solved without advancing beyond the current thinking.  This is a big challenge I see for conservatives.  I think we are right about guns, but wrong about a several other topics.

Thanks sqlbullet, another issue we face with nut jobs like in Louisville and elsewhere is that many of these folks knew long before committing their heinous act that they would go down in a hail of bullets, and are ok with that. Sure, more armed security can lessen the carnage, but it won?t stop things like this from happening. Individuals like Connor Sturgeon in Louisville are much harder to anticipate and stop in advance when they don?t have a history of violence or mental illness. These guys just don?t care, if they are unable to secure a weapon, they will find another way, be it in a car careening down a busy sidewalk, or a machete attack on the subway

I don't think there is a way to completely eliminate crime or even mass shootings.  We are way beyond the tipping point for gun availability and that is never going to change; accept that the ship has sailed on that one.  An approach I would like to see more of is arming the good guys so that there are multiple people who can stop a shooting.  It won't eliminate casualties altogether but it will certainly lower them drastically.  In every mass shooting incident of the past several decades except for the Las Vegas shooting in 2017, any armed civilian in the vicinity could have taken out the bad guy before the body count topped a couple people. 

The guy in Las Vegas was methodical and planned his carnage well.  He was too far from his victims for any armed people there to get him (out of hand gun range) and the hotel security had to break into a locked room to get at him and he had cameras watching the door.  I don't think anything could have been done differently to mitigate that shooting but that is the exception; not the rule.  One thing is certain, more laws are unlikely to help at all.

I agree completely, they can be slowed down, but not stopped, and yes, we are well beyond the tipping point, maybe they should consider enforcing the laws already on the books instead new ?feel good? laws that will likely change nothing

Rampage killings.  The fact they chose a gun was a matter of convenience and perception.  If the only thing we change is the availability of guns, these perpetrators will still go on their rampage, and perhaps with a mechanism of greater effect.

We can't eliminate them.  There is no place where humans exist in a society that you don't occasionally see someone with this kind of break.