Hi everyone.

I have been lurking for a little while but just joined the group.  I have been reloading 40 S&W for 5 years but just started reloading for 10 mm a few months ago.  I bought some 220 gr TMJ flat points from RMR with the idea to work up a target load that mimics full power offerings from Buffalo Bore and Underwood so I could use them to sight in my Highpoint 1095 to hunt white tail.  I just sort of assumed there would be some published data to work from but, of course as I am sure you all know, I could not find any.  I found a lot of people on this site that had reloaded 220 gr and decided to try to work up a load using some of the recipes published here (I know that is dangerous etc; I take full responsibility for my own safety).  Anyway, I just got back from the range and decided to publish my own results here and inquire about possible next steps.  I chose 3 representative powders: High-Skor 800x, Longshot, and Accurate #9.  I don't have as much data with the 800x as that was a few weeks ago and I have misplaced the data.  I may have to redo that one. I will say that although I have read many people say that 800x meters like crap, I have not had that experience.  Using a Lyman digital scale that measures charges for you is a real time saver and it works as well with 800x as it does for Acc #9 (which I have read meters beautifully).

I weighed 5 of the projectiles and they all weighed 220.1 gr + or minus 0.1 gr.  They measured 0.6905" long + or - 0.0005".  My set up does have a little more error in seating bullets to exact depths than I like but all bullets were seated to 1.260" + or - 0.0025" with a light taper crimp.  Federal LP primers were used with new Starline brass.  The Longshot MV values are averages of 4 shots, (shot six and discarded the slowest and fastest).  The Acc #9 MV values are averages of 8 (shot 10 and discarded the fastest and slowest).  The way the benches are set up at my range makes it impossible to have the chrono more than about 7 to 8 feet away so I don't really know how that affects the values.  These were fired out of a Highpoint 1095 10 mm PCC with a 17.5" barrel.

Powder      Charge       MV 
      Longshot       6.8 gr        1130 ft/s
                          7.0 gr        1128 ft/s  (Don't know why it would be slower...)
                          7.2 gr        1148 ft/s
                          7.4 gr        1170 ft/s
                          7.6 gr        1174 ft/s

     Accurate #9   9.4 gr         1126 ft/s
                         9.6 gr         1126 ft/s
                         9.8 gr         1145 ft/s
                        10.0 gr        1173 ft/s
                        10.2 gr        1195 ft/s
                        10.4 gr        1209 ft/s    (only shot 2 of these out of an abundance of caution; 1214 ft/s and 1204 ft/s)

I measured the bases of the fired cartridges when I got home and did not find a significant difference in any of them.  They all measured between 0.423 and 0.425" (new unfired base is 0.421")  I also did not really see any flattened primers so I am thinking of loading up a few at 2 or 3 more 0.2 gr increments with both powders to see if I get pressure signs.  I also need to go back and do more testing with the 800x.

I actually don't know if the chamber on the HP 1095 is fully supported or not.  Like most PCCs, it is blowback operated.  I had 3 failures to feed out of 100 shots fired.  Those rounds were significantly pushed into the case by the heavy bolt smashing the bullet against the lip of the chamber.  They were not fired and I pulled them when I got back home.

As a comparison, 220 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore travel a bit faster than these at around 1300 ft/s from the same gun but the brass seems very stressed and I am not sure they can be reloaded safely.

So, what do you think?  Are there any other powders you think may be better?  Precision with this gun sucks with the best of ammo; 4 inch patterns at 50 yards.  I am seriously considering selling this gun and getting a PCC from Just Right Carbines for next Deer season.

Edit:  Temperature at the range was 50 to 53 deg.

Welcome JBS27572, I agree, my 1095TS is anything but a tack driver, but with the Holosun HE503CU-GR, it?s a heck of a lot of fun at say 30 yards or less. As for powders, you may want to consider BE-86, but am sure some of the more experienced, longtime loaders can be of more help.

Honestly from the testing I just did I think you are on the right track.  AA9 with a 200gr XTP won out with all my loads.  I tried Longshot (over book), BE-86, there wasn?t any book values for 200gr so I?m not sure if you want to go 220gr but I wasn?t impressed, Power Pistol (max book) and AA9.  AA9 was awesome and velocity well over book value without going max charge.  I think for what barrel length you have 10.4gr of AA9 is probably a good middle of the road loading.  I would lose my shit with that accuracy and have been considering a Just Right Carbine as well, good luck.

I hear you Lunder.  I am kind of an accuracy buff and 4" patterns are just hurting my feelings.  My AR shoots under 0.5" MOA routinely and under 0.25 MOA on a good day.  I reload for 223 as well.  (my gun really likes 69 gr HPBT matchkings with 26.0 gr Varget).

Anyone out there own a JR carbine?  I need to save up some cash for the next couple months but I might get one.  If they can take stock AR barrels then I really want one.  I'll put a SS Green mountain barrel on it and drop in a good trigger.  I bet I can make a tack driver out of it.

OK, finished working up my load.  Here is the rest of the data.  As before, COAL = 1.26" +/- 0.0025"; Federal LP primers; New Starline brass; 220 gr TMJ bullets from RMR, length = 0.6905" +/- 0.0005".  The range temp was 40 deg F with a light drizzle (at least the shooter benches were covered, LOL).

Powder          Charge          MV (ave of 8 unless otherwise specified)     Ave base diam (ave of five)
Highskor 800X         7.6 gr            1195 ft/s                                                  0.4255"
                              7.8 gr            1210 ft/s                                                  0.4288"
                              8.0 gr            1234 ft/s                                                  0.4292"

Longshot                 7.6 gr            1202 ft/s                                                   0.428"
                              7.8 gr            1226 ft/s                                                   0.4264"
                              8.0 gr            1226 ft/s                                                   0.425"

Acc#9                    10.4 gr           1199 ft/s                                                   0.423"
                             10.6 gr           1219 ft/s                                                   0.423"
                             10.8 gr           1236 ft/s                                                   0.423"
                             11.0 gr           1255 ft/s                                                   0.423"
                             11.2 gr           1272 ft/s                                                   0.424"

It is really hard for me to see a difference in flattening of primers but, with that caveat, I think the 8.0 gr 800X cases may have been a little flattened.  I pushed everything through a bulge buster and threw them in the case cleaner.  I will size them properly another day.

With less than 50 ft/s difference between 7.6 gr and 8.0 gr 800X, I think I will stop with the 7.6 gr of 800X.  Longshot seemed a little lower pressure then 800X if base diameters are the thing to go by but, again, less than 50 ft/s between 7.6 and 8.0 gr so I will stop at the 7.6 gr loading for longshot as well.

Acc#9 seems to be the overall best in my tests for the 220 gr TMJ projectiles.  I saw consistent raises in MV over the entire range of about 18 ft/s per 0.2 gr increment.  Base diameters were barely changed from the new brass (0.421").  At 11.2 gr, the 1272 ft/s speed is comparable to the Buffalo Bore loading (about 1300 ft/s but I only shot a couple).  I could probably push a little higher but I don't really see the point, and I don't really want to hit the limit and then damage myself or my gun; that is my load.

I should add that I was a little unsure of exactly where to measure on the base.  If I measured at the very bottom edge, the number was nearly always about 0.423 but if I measured around the middle of the solid part of the base, I got slightly larger numbers.  Can anyone tell me which is the better number to go by?

Just got my order in from GT bullets for their 220 gr hard cast hollow points.  They look nice but they are not quite 220 grains.  Average of 5 is about 217 grains with a range of 216.8 to 217.3 gr.  I'll have to wait until the fall deer season to see how they perform on whitetail.  The dimensions are very close to my 220 gr TMJ bullets from RMR at about 0.01" longer.  I'll take a few to the range this weekend and see what the velocity is like with 11.2 gr acc#9 behind them.

Yikes!  Average of 5 is 1364 ft/s with the 217 gr HPs with 11.2 gr acc#9 behind them.  I should not have loaded so many.  The casings were not cracked and there was no blown primers or gas cutting around them.  I can never really tell if primers are flattened or not.  The brass went in the trash to be on the safe side.  If I load any more of these HPs, I will back the charge down at least a grain and see what that looks like.

Lesson learned.  Trying to work up a load based on the weight and length of the projectile is not the thing to do.  From now on, I will use the projectile I will be hunting with.  I wasted a lot of time, powders, brass, and shot with these 220 gr TMJs and the data doesn't look like it is transferable; nearly 100 ft/s difference.

The gun seemed to handle them ok so I will keep the ones I already loaded and use them on deer next season where I would only be shooting one or two at a time.  On the positive side, the group size went down to about 2" at 50 yards.  Still disappointing accuracy but better than the 4" it was getting with other bullets.  I still think I will trade this one in for a JR carbine in a few months when I can save up some money.

That?s some crazy high velocity for that heavy of projectile, Gosh

Quote from: JBS27572 on January 28 2023 03:31:55 PM MST
Yikes!  Average of 5 is 1364 ft/s with the 217 gr HPs with 11.2 gr acc#9 behind them.  I should not have loaded so many.  The casings were not cracked and there was no blown primers or gas cutting around them.  I can never really tell if primers are flattened or not.  The brass went in the trash to be on the safe side.  If I load any more of these HPs, I will back the charge down at least a grain and see what that looks like.

Lesson learned.  Trying to work up a load based on the weight and length of the projectile is not the thing to do.  From now on, I will use the projectile I will be hunting with.  I wasted a lot of time, powders, brass, and shot with these 220 gr TMJs and the data doesn't look like it is transferable; nearly 100 ft/s difference.

The gun seemed to handle them ok so I will keep the ones I already loaded and use them on deer next season where I would only be shooting one or two at a time.  On the positive side, the group size went down to about 2" at 50 yards.  Still disappointing accuracy but better than the 4" it was getting with other bullets.  I still think I will trade this one in for a JR carbine in a few months when I can save up some money.

Yes those are some nutty velocities. Do you have a 5 inch 1911 you can test those rounds and post the results?

No, the only 10 mm I had was the Highpoint carbine.  I am selling that one due to the aforementioned accuracy.  I decided against the JR carbine because the owner of one of the local gun stores said he used to sell them and they were crap.  They may have fixed the issues he told me about but I don't want to spend $800 and then find out they haven't.  I settled on a TNW Aero survival rifle in 10 mm instead.  I just picked it up yesterday and have not been able to get to the range yet to test it out.

OK, so I took it out today and headed to the range.  It was 42 deg and pouring rain but, you know, NEW GUN, LOL. (TNW Aero Survival Rifle in 10 mm)

I sighted in the Cabela Firebolt Prism scope I swapped off my highpoint 1095.  I reloaded some new starline brass with 10.0 gr acc#9 and 180 gr FMJ flat points.  Chrony reads an average of 1143 fps for this load.  My first group off a sand bag at 50 yards measures 0.78" for a 5 shot group.  I love it! 

It's too cold and wet to hang around too much today.  It's supposed to be a better day weather wise tomorrow.  I came back home and reloaded some more new brass to try and match my hunting ammo velocity.  I have some 217 gr cast lead hollow points that were running at 1364 fps out of the highpoint.  The TNW barrel is 1.5 inches shorter (16" instead of 17.5") but that shouldn't matter too much I think.  I loaded 10 rounds with 10.5 gr ACC #9; 10 with 11.0 gr and 10 with 11.5 gr.  I will also measure the 217 gr HPs out of the TNW.

OK, I loaded some 180 gr FMJFP from RMR with acc#9 and did a little testing.  I loaded 10 each with 10.5 gr, 11.0 gr, and 11.5 gr ACC#9.  Five were put through the chronograph and five were shot off a sandbag rest at 50 yards to see how they grouped.  I also shot 10 of the 217 gr cast lead hollow points I had previously loaded with 11.2 Gr Acc#9 and put 5 through the chrono and 5 at a target to see grouping.

Here is the results: I tried to post pictures but they are too big.  I don't know how to edit them to make them take up less room.

10.5 gr ACC#9: 1220 fps, 2.41 " group
11.0 gr "       ":  1283 fps, 1.78" group
11.5 gr "      " :  1347 fps, 1.93" group

Finally, the 217 gr cast lead HP from GT bullets that were traveling at 1364 fps out of my highpoint 1095:

1358 fps from the TNW but the group was horrible (5.00").

I shot a group in the pouring rain yesterday with 180 gr FMJFP bullets and 10.0 gr ACC#9 that measured 0.78" so I'm not really sure why the groups are worse today outside of the fact that I am using a different load of powder.  This rifle appears to HATE those cast lead HP bullets.  I guess I will buy some 200 gr XTP bullets and work up a hunting load with those.

The trigger on this TNW is mushy with lots of creep too.  Fortunately, TNW offers a match trigger for their rifles for 45$ so I guess I will be getting one of those too.  I might try their 460 Rowland conversion kit too if I can't make hot 10 mm behave.

Thanks JBS27572, great write up and velocity tests. As for shrinking photos that work on this forum, give this a try, it seem complicated, but it?s really not. go to
https://postimages.org Once there, click on / select the drop down ?Do Not Resize This Image?, which will give you several options, choose 640 x 480 (For Message Boards) leave the box below ?No Expiration? as is unless you feel the need to change it. Now, click / select ?Choose Images? you will be given 3 options. On my mobile device, I choose ?Photo Library? and your pictures folder will appear. Now tap / click your desired photo and an ?Add button, will appear, tap / click.Add. Once selected, you will have 9 options, click on the very far right  of the 3ed from the bottom ?Hot link for Forums? when you click that, the word ?copy? will appear in blue, now, click / touch a blank area in the post you are creating or responding to, and  select paste, at that point, your photo URL will appear in your post

Ken

Here are the targets for the above groups.

Below is the target for the group from the day before in the rain (note the mud on the target, LOL)