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Messages - supersonic

#1
Quote from: The_Shadow on October 13 2013 08:37:14 AM MDTJust remember that some of the commercial Power Pistol loadings, show the translucent/whitish gray flakes in their composition. I am still trying to figure out if they are there as a flash suppressant, identifier or modifier being used to adjust burn rates.

Try to separate these "mystery" flakes and test them. I would start by using a safe area (like the underside of a metal trash can lid, or a couple of cinder blocks) and pouring a small pile of PP from the can onto test area. Then, put the "mystery flakes" a few feet away in another small pile. Ignite both and see if you can tell any difference(s).

Next, I would use the remaining flakes to add to my own loads - starting charges, low-power, of course - and substitute, grain-for-grain, these flakes with your PP powder. Then check for differences by firing them. I would have someone video record you firing these in low light (along with an equal amount of rounds loaded to the same exact capacity of PP by itself) to see if, in fact this is a flash deterrent. If no differences can be detected, it is in all likelihood some kind of identifier. Depending on how "cooperative" the person at the other end of the phone is, I would then call the respective manufacturer and explain the "pulling of rounds" and the testing. Ask if the person could help you out by telling you what these flakes are (make sure you say it's for your own info only). Chances are - in my experience dealing with any manufacturers firearm-related - you will get a "We don't/can't give that kind of information out." And if a reason is offered, it will be one of 3 things: "It's a liability issue" "It's a proprietary issue" or "It's per company policy" .....BUT, seeing as you actually do these "pull downs" you are obviously very curious, so it can never hurt to ask. But, you may get lucky and your test(s) will confirm enough so that you won't even need to make that phone call in the first place. 8)

EDIT: I just noticed that in all the pictures you took of the flakes (looks like they are under a microscope), it seems as if some are just lighter in color than the others. But in the pic where you have the powder emptied into a pan, it looks like a fine, white powder is in there - completely separate from the flakes. Is that just an optical illusion due to the lighting or how the photo was taken? If this is a fine powder separate from the flakes, I'd like to see some "microscope images" of this stuff as well. Fine powder almost always equals flash deterrent. Identifiers (both BlueDot and RedDot are perfect examples) have - in the case of the 2 powders just mentioned - blue or red-colored flakes (respectively) in a ratio of about ~3:10.
#2
Quote from: hammer1 on October 14 2013 10:45:39 AM MDT
Supersonic, do you have a starting load from where you worked up from? Curious as to where to start, I can see power pistolin my 1006's future. I have alot of noslers 135 gr's

Hammer- I started at 9.5g and worked my way up from there. The 9.5 starting charge is a very safe load. Good for plinking, too!
#3
Yes, I must give Taos big time kudos for inspiring my tests - which (in one) I finally got a 200g JHP to consistently hit 1300fps+! (YAY!!!!)...I also credit him for that as well, because had I not seen his testing, I would have probably never used PP in my 10MM and then "bumped up" those 200g loadings like I did. Thanks, Taos!


(BTW, I posted this same thread/test over at Calguns and I'm getting a lot of s**t for it - "those cases are about to come apart" "you're pushing the envelope both with the gun and your safety" "the 135g load will just explode upon impact", etc....etc....etc.....)
#4
 I have been using Power Pistol in my 1911 and HK USP (both .45ACP) for quite a few years now, and I love the power and accuracy I get when shooting IDPA with it. I also love how clean it leaves the bore!  However, the 10MM AUTO is not only my favorite pistol cartridge, but my Glock G20 is my daily carry piece as well. It's just not practical (nor economical) to shoot in competition - unless you want to be picking up brass all day. Also, I've heard that the instructors & the guys who run the IDPA matches either discourage or don't even allow 10MM in certain areas of the States because the round does too much damage (i.e. deep denting, holes, etc) to the steel targets. Who woulda' thunk??? ;D
The only thing about loading the 10MM AUTO for me has been a constant challenge for a certain "magic number" or "holy grail." This would be making a 200 grain JHP cross the 1300fps threshold with accuracy. Well, I finally accomplished the 200g/1300fps mark by "bumping" up the powder charge 0.2 grains in Test #2.2. It worked like a charm. However, I was blown off my feet when I shot the Nosler 135 grain top load.  IT IS A MOTHERF***ING MONSTER. If an animal (or let's say, for the sake of argument, a human "bad guy")was hit almost anywhere (from the calf area to the top of the head) - that 135 grain hollow point traveling at 1700+ FPS - carrying with it over NINE HUNDRED FOOT POUNDS of energy - would be so ferociously destructive and explosive (once it entered the wet tissue) - survival from a half-way decent shot of this type would be almost non-existent. Even if it hit the thigh, the speed & energy dump - PLUS explosive fragmentation & bone fragment "missiles"- would be so devastating that the femoral artery would almost surely be torn/perforated (if not severed completely or a large part simply destroyed). This "MONSTER ROUND" is nearly reaching rifle territory, as far as ballistics go (with the exception of super aerodynamic rifle bullets, ala SMK's, Berger VLD's, etc. But who hunts or uses self-defense at 500-1000 yards? What are most gunfights confined to statistically? Like 10-20 feet?

The chronograph used was a CED Millennium II, set 10 feet from the bench/muzzle. The pistol used, of course, was my trusty Glock G20 with a Glock Factory 6" 'Hunting Barrel' that I had custom ported. The OEM spring/guiderod were used, except for tests #4.1 & #4.2, in which I switched to a 24-lb. Glock spring on a GlockMeister Tungsten guiderod (captured). All rounds were loaded on an RCBS PRO-2000 Auto-Indexing Model. Dies were RCBS Carbide .40S&W/10MM. All rounds were also run through a LEE Factory Crimp Die. *DT = Double Tap


TEST #1.1        LOAD # 10XTP180.1

Bullet - 180g Hornady XTP JHP
Case -  DT (NEW)
Primer - CCI #350 LPM
Powder - PP 8.6 g.
# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5

VELOCITY:

1) 1359      2) 1359        3) 1357      4) 1335       5) 1330


Average Velocity - 1344 FPS:

Average Muzzle Energy:- 722 FT. LBS.

Extreme Spread:- 29 FPS

TEST #1.2             LOAD #10XTP180.2

Bullet - 180g Hornady XTP JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 9.6 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5


VELOCIITY::

1) 1426        2)1396        3) 1431        4) 1416        5) 1430


Average Velocity  : 1420 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy  : 806 FT. LBS.

Extreme Spread  : 35 FPS 

2 Sample Cases That Showed the Most Significant Change - IMG_7579_zpsa5fbb77f.jpg

IMG_0264_zps60239b0d.jpg


TEST #2.1            LOAD #10XTP200.1

Bullet - 200g Hornady XTP JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 7.6 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5


VELOCITY:

1) 1197        2)1188        3)1186        4) 1176        5) 1196


Average Velocity : 1189 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 628 FT LBS

Extreme Spread : 21 FPS



TEST #2.2         LOAD #10XTP200.2

Bullet - 200g Hornady XTP JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 8.8 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5

VELOCITY:

1) 1298      2) 1314      3) 1307      4) 1310      5) 1305


Average Velocity : 1307 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 758 IN LBS

Extreme Spread : 16 FPS

2 Sample Cases That Showed the Most Significant Change : IMG_2134_zps9d1af575.jpg

IMG_4238_zpsd5ae7a31.jpg


TEST #3.1           LOAD #10GD180.1

Bullet - 180g Speer Gold Dot JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 8.5 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5


VELOCITY :

1) 1308      2) 1340      3) 1337      4) 1332      5) 1331


Average Velocity : 1330 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 707 FT LBS

Extreme Spread : 32 FPS


TEST 3.2            LOAD #10GD180.2

Bullet - 180g Speer Gold Dot JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 9.6 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5


VELOCITY :

1) 1408     2) 1419     3)1399     4) 1407     5) 1410


Average Velocity : 1409 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 820 FT LBS

Extreme Spread : 20 FPS

2 Sample Cases That Showed the Most Significant Change : IMG_0017_zpsdcc19eee.jpg

IMG_1158_zpsd6ab5cdf.jpg


TEST #4.1                LOAD #10NOS135.1


Bullet - 135g Nosler JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 10.6 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5

VELOCITY :

1) 1641     2) 1648     3) 1643     4) 1624     5) 1691


Average Velocity : 1649 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 820 FT LBS

Extreme Spread : 67 FPS


TEST #4.2             LOAD #10NOS135.2

Bullet - 135g Nosler JHP

Case -  DT (NEW)

Primer - CCI #350 LPM

Powder - PP 11.6 g.

# of Rounds Loaded & Fired - 5



VELOCITY :

1) 1743     2) 1719     3) 1733     4) 1756     5) 1765


Average Velocity : 1743 FPS

Average Muzzle Energy : 911 FT LBS

Extreme Spread : 46 FPS

2 Sample Cases That Showed the Most Significant Change : IMG_6175_zps34b278f5.jpg

IMG_4836_zps2dd9b99e.jpg