Thank you, that tells me that my pricing IS in line with reality, my timing is just bad.  Oh well, maybe it'll trade better than it sells.  Later.

Dave

So what's resale like on the base model EAA Witness?  I have a low round count, full size Steel in 10mm, Wonder finish, I did the basic Henning upgrades, and have 5 mags, 4 brand new.  I've got it listed elsewhere, but it's generated next to no interest, so I'm wondering if I simply have it priced too high.  Thanks.

Dave   

So basically, the answer to my question is no  .  I probably should have made it a bit clearer that I was only asking about target/plinking loads.  The 10 probably won't be a carry piece, not because of weight, but rather holster availability, or should I say lack thereof  .  My carry is a 9mm, and like you, Kenk, it's loaded with either 124 gr. HST's or GD's.  Thanks, guys.

Dave

So other than hunting or bear defense, is there any good reason to use 200 gr. bullets in the 10mm vs. the more commonly used 180 gr.?  And I say more common based on factory ammo selection, 180 gr. projectiles are used far more than any other weight.  I tend to pick a bullet weight and style and stick with it, but I'm still experimenting with the 10.  So far, I've only used 2 different bullets, the 180 gr. XTP and the MBC 180 gr. coated TC.  I'm happy  running 10.5 gr. of BD with the XTP, but I may switch powders for the lead bullet, even 9.5 gr. of BD was hotter than I want/need for a target/plinking load, 1125+ FPS, I'm looking for  more like 1100 max.  Thanks!

Dave

Quote from: Snubbie 357 on August 18 2021 07:00:43 AM MDT
I'm loading 10.5 grs blue dot with hornady 180xtp using magnum primers. Out of my Ruger 1911 I'm getting 1300 fps. Seems fast but I don't have any reason to question my chronograph.

Wanted to come back to this, I meant to ask why the magnum primer?  Compared to some of the rifle powders I've been using lately (in rifles!), Blue Dot seems light and fluffy, it doesn't seem like it should need a magnum primer.  Just curious, the only time I've ever used magnum primers was with ball powders in rifles, or actual magnum hand guns.  Later.

Dave

Quote from: Snubbie 357 on August 18 2021 07:00:43 AM MDT
I'm loading 10.5 grs blue dot with hornady 180xtp using magnum primers. Out of my Ruger 1911 I'm getting 1300 fps. Seems fast but I don't have any reason to question my chronograph.

That does seem fast, with 10.6 and the same bullet, I just barely got to 1200 FPS from my 4.5" barreled Witness.  But I'm not using magnum primers, maybe that's the difference?  I'll bet it's pretty snappy!  Later.

Dave

Thanks, guys, some thoughtful responses that are much appreciated.  Sql, you almost had me at case capacity and compressed charges, even though I'm not at max.  But then I remembered I was getting the same results with NO powder or primer.  As mentioned in my OP, I went back and tried lubing some cases, didn't make a difference, I was still getting fairly significant bullet deformation.  And BTW, my target COAL is 1.26" per my Hornady load data.

Shadow, just Dave will do  .  The spacers are an interesting idea, but even though I'm loading on a single stage press (Rockchucker), I'm using the Hornady LNL bushings, so adding those spacers would pretty much eliminate any advantage of using the bushings.  That said, you did get me thinking about my seating/crimping die, insofar as it seems to want to start crimping as soon as the case starts into the die.

So, weird situations sometimes call for weird, creative solutions, and this one's a doozy  .  As the 10mm replaced my .45 ACP, I still have a Redding die set for .45.  The seating plug for the .45 hits much lower on the bullet ogive of the 10mm, in fact, if it was much lower, I'd be running into the case mouth.  But as it is, I'm getting NO bullet deformation.  And, of course, the .45 die itself doesn't touch the bell/flare of the 10mm case, so ALL it's doing is seating the bullet.  From there, I pulled the seater plug from my 10mm die and am using it just for crimping.  I've got a Lee FCD on the way, but for now, I have a system that meets my needs and expectations, now all I need to do is find the time to get to the range and see if it's all working  .

Again, I appreciate your time, guys, and will let you know how it goes once I get to the range.  Later.

Dave

Actually, I'm not so sure it's just the dies, I'm also using new brass.  Anyway, details of where I am and how I got here.  I'm new to loading the 10mm, although not to loading in general.  I know enough to know that I don't know much, but I can generally produce safe, reliable, and accurate ammo, both pistol and rifle.

So to date, I've loaded 40 10mm rounds, the first 30 with once fired Federal small primer brass, all have been 180 gr. XTP's and Blue Dot powder.  The rounds loaded in Federal brass were all fine, other than not reaching the velocity I was after, all functioned as they should, and the bullets came out of the seating die with no problems.

So last night I decided to load up some of the brand new Starline brass I just got in.  Followed my usual procedure, resize, flare/bell, prime, charge, seat.  All went fine until I started seating the bullets.  They seemed to need quite a bit more force than usual, and the bullets were getting deformed by the seating plug, not just a ring, but actually squished a little bit.  I was also struggling with getting a consistent seating depth.  I tried increasing the bell, but the seating die just closed it up, even when adjusted pretty far out.

So in the process of writing this, something just occured to me.  I use carbide dies, so the cases were un-lubed.  The Federal brass wasn't lubed either, but I'd cleaned and polished them with my wet tumbler, pins, and a small amount of LemiShine, Dawn, and car wash/wax.  The Starline is straight out of the box, as I received it.  Could that little bit of wax left behind be the difference?  Will try lubing some cases and see if that makes a difference, in the meantime, I'd appreciate any other ideas or suggestions ya'll might have.  Later.

Dave

Same drawing I was looking at, only yours is missing the notation at the top that says maximum cartridge spec and minimum chamber spec.  Interesting info, and I'm a little ashamed to admit the 10mm is the first time I've actually paid much attention too.  As to case gauge, I'll get one when/if I get a second 10mm, but in the meantime, a barrel plunk test is sufficient unto my needs  .  My new Starline brass showed up yesterday, so I'll start working on getting some of that loaded up soon.  But now I'm going to need to source more bullets  .  Always something, isn't it?  Later.

Dave

So I have a Full Size Steel, 10mm of course, and so far I've run it on the OEM recoil spring.  Even with the stock spring, it's a challenge to rack the slide.  I got the Wolff recoil calibration pack, and after my last range trip, decided to drop the 18 lb. spring in, but had to drop back to the 16, I just could not rack the slide with that 18 in there, and I'm not exactly a weakling  .  So my question is, how do guy rack these things with .22 lb. springs?!  Enquiring minds, don't ya know  .  Later.

Dave

Hi, Gary, mine's the Full Size Steel in the Wonder Finish, so 4.5" barrel IIRC.  But I don't think they're under, appreciated, virtually unknown is more like it.  Don't care in the least, I'm really liking this shooter, now if I could just find a .45 ACP top end for it, it would be perfect  .  Later.

Dave

Thanks, guys, I think that clears things up for me nicely.  I'm still going to hold off on any more testing until the new Starline brass shows up.  And yes, I do have a micrometer, micrometers actually, my old airgun hobby morphed into a home machining hobby, so I'm pretty well set for measuring tools  .

Shadow, you mixed up some of my numbers, the .4195" was new Federal AE factory ammo, that resized at .424" from my Redding die.  Was looking at the SAAMI spec drawings for the 10, it calls out a max case diameter just ahead of the extraction groove of .425, but a minimum chamber is .4281 at approx. the same location, so it's looking like I'm probably in pretty good shape, it would seem my pistol has a fairly tight chamber, and my resizing die won't have me overworking my brass too badly.  Anyway, thanks again, guys, I really appreciate the time and info.  Later.

Dave

Forgive the new guy and all the questions, but the 10 is new to me, and a higher pressure round than I'm used to dealing with in a handgun, so my tendency is to err on the side of caution, if I must err.

So I was doing some research, came across some good posts about case expansion, one here, one somewhere else.  The first confusion came from the somewhere else, I think an old post over on Glock Talk.  Someone cited a well respected source saying .0005" was max acceptable expansion in new brass with max loads.  Based on other reading I've done, and the fact that most of us are only using calipers rather than micrometers, shouldn't that be .005"?

But then I started measuring my own ammo and brass.  Here's the results, using Federal AE 180 gr. FMJ, small primer brass, and reloading that same brass.

New ammo, .4195"
Fired, .425"
Resized, Redding carbide die set, .424"
Second firing, .429", test loads with charges from 9.1-10.6 gr.  No appreciable difference in case expansion with charge weight.

Of note, a significant number of fired cases are actually a little oval, numbers above are approx. averages, I should probably slug my barrel.  But here's where it gets a little weird.  I also fired more of the factory ammo, only this time, they also measured .429".  Same day, same gun, different box of ammo, but the previous box was shot under very similar conditions.  Don't know if both boxes came from the same lot, I didn't check.  So about .009" expansion, but no smiles or bulges. Also worth noting, this box chronographed higher than spec, 1090's vs. the 1030 claimed on the box.  Didn't chronograph the first box.

So if I'm interpreting the data properly, I'm getting about .005" expansion with both new and reloaded ammo.  Based on my research to date, that seems high.  BTW, pistol in question is a pretty new Witness Full Size Steel, total round count to date is only about 200.  Would appreciate any thoughts, and maybe a little hand holding, based on my research so far, these numbers are a little alarming  .  Thanks.

Dave 

So I loaded up some test ammo for my new to me Witness, Blue Dot powder, Hornady XTP 180 gr., once fired Federal small primer brass.  I was looking for a "full power" load, defined by me as 1250 FPS in this case.  My max charge for this round was 10.6 gr., that only got me to 1200 FPS, and that was only one of five at that charge weight, the other 4 were in the high 1100's.  Still need to examine my brass, but I'm not seeing anything concerning, although I haven't measured case head expansion yet.  Max load data I've found for Blue dot and a 180 gr. bullet is 11 gr., but that was with a Gold Dot.  I have some new Starline brass on the way (if Fedex hasn't lost it, it was supposed to be here Weds.  ), I think I'm going to hold off on any further testing until it arrives.

On an interesting side note, the brass came from some Federal AE ammo, 180 gr. FMJ's.  It shoots well in this Witness, and since I had the chrony set up anyway, I went ahead and ran a mag past it (Labradar).  Box says 1030 FPS, I was getting 1090's.  Is this common with this ammo?  This is the first time I've ever had factory ammo chronograph faster than claimed, especially Federal, took me by surprise.  Later.

I've found with coated bullets you need to flare the case a bit more, otherwise you end up scraping off the coating.  Seems to be worse if you're seating and crimping in one operation.  Later.

Dave