I don't see how tha's going to work with any red dot, since the sight overhangs the optics cut.

@Troutramp - have you tried any heavier loads yet? I was debating with myself about bumping my Match champion up to 10mag, but when I shoot the Doubletap 230gr load (1120 fps) the empties stick and require a good rap on the ejector. When I measure the bases, the unfired rounds are .420, while the empties are .428-.430. That has discouraged me from wanting anything hotter in that revolver. As it is, I'm thinking that I will not be reloading that brass. Then again - maybe the larger case would give lower pressures for a comparable load?

Once. Was one of the early Kahr K9's when it was still pretty new. The slide back broke in half but stayed in place. Kahr sent me a free replacement (also MIM) after I sent them a photo in an email. That part is still in there after thousands of rounds. Pretty obvious that ht e original part was not typical but defective.

The trigger on my GP100 Match Champion is very good - as good as any S&W revolver I've had. And accuracy has been good as well,
so far favoring heavier loads. Most accurate load I've found yet has been the Doubletap 230gr cast FP at about 1100 fps.

Quote from: rognp on October 04 2020 08:36:42 AM MDT

Quote from: Muskrat on September 04 2020 07:51:22 PM MDT

Quote from: FreeMe on September 04 2020 07:01:10 PM MDT
...But factory loads I've tried pass what I'm seeing published for handloads. 220gr Underwood @1170 fps (1200 from a 5" auto claimed) and Doubletap 230gr @1045 fps (1100 from 5" auto claimed)...

That's pretty typical. Couple of things... DT tends to exaggerate their velocity...A LOT. Underwood usually comes in above stated velocity, though in the case of their 220 grain 10mm load, pull downs have shown that the bullet doesn't actually weigh a full 220 grains, while my bullets from the same supplier weigh over 220 grains.

Also, you're never going to get pistol velocity out of a revolver because of the gas escape between the cylinder and the barrel. How much velocity you loose is dependent on the particular gun and even the particular chamber, but a revolver will never equal a pistol for velocity if all other factors are equal.

Loading long might work out well...might not, depending on how far you push it. One thing to keep in mind is that the longer and hotter you load, the more likely you'll encounter bullet-pull. Bullet-pull will freeze a revolver up solid, and it takes time and shop tools to make it spin again. No velocity gains will ever compensate for that fatal flaw.

There are cases and occasions where comparable barrel lengths will produce velocities contrary to intuition. I had recently seen data supporting that, I believe bried somewhere in 10mm-. I couldnt find it this AM, but will see if I can drag it back into the light of day.  Poster had like 50FPS higher vel on some loads in the revolver, but not all of course.

I'd sure like to see that.

Quote from: jazzsax8 on November 08 2020 08:18:51 AM MST....Assuming you are already into 10mm with a autoloading pistol, what could the GP100 ever do to eclipse say a Glock 20 especially with an extra KKM 6-7" barrel?  So for the reasonable next step up you like me would have a Redhawk in .44 or even bigger then handload it from meek below 10mm energy to way above it...

That's easy. The GP100 will cycle and shoot the heavy loads that won't cycle through the Glock. That includes heavies seated longer than spec for more powder room, as well as some of the wider meplat heavies that have been reported to not cycle reliably in Glocks without seating them shorter than spec (thereby, reducing powder room). And then there's the option of reaming to 10mm magnum.

Yeah - the Redhawk covers all that spectrum and more, but at the cost of weight and bulk. A S&W model 69 does too, but at the cost of that sixth round.

Doesn't make the 10mm GP100 absolutely superior, but there are some things it does that the others - including the Glock - don't.

BTW - my Match champion is very smooth now after a lot of break-in. And I can't see a bullseye at 25 yds, but at half that distance it's grouping 1.5". It likes the heavies best. I'm loading 200gr, and using 220gr and 230gr factory loads. the 230's are awesome!

With the existence of the 10mm GP100, there is really no point in a 10mm Redhawk, IMO.
If you're going to pack that much more weight, you might as well have the benefit of more power in the .44 mag or 45 Colt. Can't help talk you out of the GP100. It's currently the most power you can get out of a revolver that size, and still have 6 rounds on tap. Good trigger, good balance of power to weight, and great grips. I'm quite happy with mine.

That's good to know - thanks. But that DT bullet is the exact profile I'm looking for. WFN-LBT, with a very sharp edge. More like this - only heavier...

https://3l6fctfonm15nkjz4bz3j1eg-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DSC3324-Copy-Pistol-10mm_LBT_200GR._WFN-PB.jpg

I admit - that's a pretty big "if".

I think the underwood  load is GTG as is, really. The one I'm truly interested in is the Doubletap, and it may never happen. The first hurdle is finding a source for that 230gr WFN projectile, and I'm having no luck there. Second hurdle is load data for same, and that's a blank. So for the time being, there's not even a place to start - which is a shame, because I think that that longer bullet deserves a longer oal for a safe max revolver only load. It's all speculation, until I find that bullet - and even then, a long ladder from the basement just to approach even the velocity the factory load shows. Right now, I think a phone call to Doubletap is in order. In my perfect world, they would be convinced to work up that "revolver only" 230gr load, and I go on my way to other projects.

Quote from: Muskrat on September 04 2020 07:51:22 PM MDT...One thing to keep in mind is that the longer and hotter you load, the more likely you'll encounter bullet-pull. Bullet-pull will freeze a revolver up solid, and it takes time and shop tools to make it spin again. No velocity gains will ever compensate for that fatal flaw.

Good point.

When I measure oal of these factory loads, they all come under the usual oal listed in load manuals. In fact, the Doubletaps measure 1.246 and the Underwoods come in at 1.243. I assume that is to ensure feeding in autos, but still they clock higher velocities than the load books show as max. If I can gain back what I lose in cylinder gap by seating longer and using slower powders, I'll consider the exercise worthwhile. If I can better these loads safely by another 50 fps or so, I'll consider it a huge win.

I'm still slowly working my way up through published loads for 200gr cast with my Match Champion. Nothing new here, data-wise. But factory loads I've tried pass what I'm seeing published for handloads. 220gr Underwood @1170 fps (1200 from a 5" auto claimed) and Doubletap 230gr @1045 fps (1100 from 5" auto claimed). Nothing that looks or feels excessive so far, although the DT load was a little reluctant to eject fired cases from dirty chambers....Which is odd, because that load was quite comfortable in recoil. It had been fired a bit with mild loads prior though. (shrug)

What I'd like to know is if anyone has tried seating these heavier slugs for longer oal for more case capacity. There is room for that in the Match Champion. Seems like it should be possible to get a little more fps without getting excessive pressure - especially since some people have reported reaming out the chambers to 10mm mag. In my mind, this might be THE reason to have 10mm in a revolver - considering the possibility of having "entry-level" 41 mag approximation in a smaller package while retaining all six shots.

Just found this site, looking for load data - but I'll comment, since I've had the 10mm Match Champion for a while now, and I may agree/disagree with some of the preceding posts.

First - I don't understand the dislike of the wood grips (made by Hogue, AFAIK), except for the usual issue that our hands are all different. I find they fit me perfectly, transmit no focused recoil, and promote natural aim.  So far, I've tried every heavy cast load I can find - Underwood 220gr, Grizzly 220gr, HSM 200gr, and Doubletap 230gr - and have found none of them to be uncomfortable to shoot. The Underwood 220 is quite lively, but not enough so that practicing with it is not enjoyable. It does seem to be more accurate with the heavier cast loads, the Doubletap especially.

The trigger on mine was good but not great when new. Whatever was making it less than great then has gone away after a considerable amount of shooting and lots of dry-fire. The trigger is great now. No complaints. The finish could have been a more consistent polish, but I'm likely going to scuff it up over time anyway, so....meh. Recoil with these heaviest loads is quite manageable. Anything I've tried under 220gr, I would describe as quite pleasant....and surprisingly, I would say the same for the DT 230gr. I'm still working up 200gr handloads, but at 1150-ish fps, it's still a pussycat.

Everything said above about the clips - I agree. Not important to me though, because as a handloader, I have no need or intention of using any .40 S&W cases. In fact, I usually don't even bother with the clips for load testing.

I don't know what to say about the above comment about security Six triggers. Mine has always been just wonderful. But it was used and had been shot a lot when I bought it from the original owner many years ago. But the MC is definitely a "tighter" gun, all the way around.

The only thing I've changed is to replace the original rear sight with a Bowen Rough Country sight. That's the only improvement I can think of this revolver really needs, and it's well worth the $100 price tag, IMO.