There are records that indicate that Virginia State Police purchased some 1026's and possibly some 1076's. There is no definitive documentation (that I have seen or heard of) that they were ever issued or who might have had access to them. Perhaps The_Shadow will have something to add- he is quite knowledgeable regarding the Smith&Wesson 10xx series.

Just out of curiosity, are you selling yours?

rognp,
The hoped-for point of my analogy was the concept of  believing you can do more or get more by changing the appearance of something.

The prior "discussion" offered up the idea of putting a rim on a 10mm case with no other changes, stuffing it in a smaller revolver than the .38 Special class, and believing one would somehow get more performance out of it.

On the other hand...

You can have everything you want - 10mm bore, Super Redhawk, 10mm case having more capacity and more horsepower, 1500 fps with a 180 grain- by reaming the 10mm Super Redhawk to 10mm Magnum. My Automag IV runs 180 gr. Hornady XTP's at over 1600 fps. My 10" Contender will run them scary fast. And every bit of the accuracy you would expect from the 10mm is still there in the 10 Mag. But you can't get there with the standard 10mm case because it doesn't have the powder volume.

The 10mm Magnum is the cartridge everybody wants when they say they want a 10mm to perform like a .41 Magnum. The problem is, there ARE big heavy bullets made for the .41, and the magnum case (and the guns) shoot them quite well. There is nothing in the .400" diameter that compares unless going to rifle bullets. Do that and it's yet another issue with overall length and barrel twist. 

You REALLY owe it to yourself to look into the 10mm Magnum. I'm baffled as to why so many 10mm Auto fans have never heard of it.

Yes, you did state some opinions and when asked to discuss FACTS, you get mad and start making personal attacks. Is it not possible for you to have a discussion about your ideas without turning nasty when someone disagrees with you?

Apparently you missed the point of a "Discussion Forum". Someone makes a statement and others respond. It's too bad you don't have either the faith of conviction in your ideas OR the ability to engage in a conversation. The differences between people often produce better results than their similarities.

Spudmeister,

You can't always get what you want when using a shorter barrel. Some cartridges just don't perform in short barrels under ANY circumstances.

The 10mm has the same handicap that 9mm has in short barrels- the short case and minimal powder capacity restrict the choices of powder that would give desirable performance. Try to go to heavier bullets for the 10mm and your powder choices are restricted even further to the point of being like .40 S&W loads. In other words, some cartridges MUST have more barrel to perform.

Don't agree? Let's look at the .264 Winchester Magnum. When Winchester released this cartridge, all performance data was based on a 26" barrel. Put that cartridge in a 24" or 23" barrel, as most riflemakers use, and your performance drops dramatically. The cartridge MUST HAVE all of that barrel length to meet it's design parameters. The 10mm is no different.
There is definitely a point of diminishing returns with the 10mm- a 2.75, 2.5, 2.25 inch (or even shorter) barrel robs the load of so much performance that it is an exercise in futility.  You are far better off figuring out how to put .357 Sig in a revolver.
On another note, could you  explain why revolvers would need to get even smaller than they are? I have a Taurus 85 and a SP101. Do we need to go smaller? As we go smaller with revolvers, accuracy and control suffer.

One more thing...
Comparing the 10mm with the .41 Magnum is ridiculous. They are 2 different designs, made to work differently, in different shooting platforms, with different projectiles. How can you possibly say that a rim on a 10mm would allow you to match the performance of a .41 mag??? Since when could a 10mm cartridge shoot a 265 grain bullet at 1300 FPS? Or shoot a 295 grain SWC? What's the heaviest bullet the 10mm can shoot? 220 or 230 grain? There's that diminishing returns thing again- those bullets are longer, will require longer C.O.A.L. to get enough powder in the case to push them faster, and will not fit in your short cylinder. 

You said,
"And you are quite right that it is mighty difficult for a revolver to match the velocity of a sealed breach semi auto.  But it also mighty difficult for a semi auto to allow the variance in bullet design, pressure, bullet weight and LOA"
What do you plan to shoot out of your 10mm? A Volkswagon or a dining room chair? Virtually any load made to SAAMI standards will safely work in any 10mm pistol. Sometimes a bit of tuning is needed for a particular load or gun but if it is so odd that you need a revolver to make it shoot, maybe you should rethink your premise?

Tony Rumore said his was a "One and ONLY One" that he custom-built for his father (that one was actually 10mm Mag IIRC). Well over a decade has gone by and he has not made another and he says he never will.
I've looked high and low for a gunsmith who is willing to take it on, and I've had no luck! But I keep trying...

Spudmeister,

Could you please explain how a rim on a rimless cartridge improves performance? This reminds me of the guy who wanted more chrome on his 'Vette "so it would go faster".

Did you ever stop to consider that the potential of the 10mm cartridge possibly will not and cannot be maximized in a revolver?  Just because you can get the square peg into that round hole does not mean it works good or even better than it does in it's own square hole.

Quote from: RJM52 on December 07 2019 06:23:55 AM MST
...now if we could only get STARLINE to make some .401 PowerMag brass...

Buy a Ruger Super Redhawk in 10mm. Have your favorite gunsmith re-cut the cylinder to 10mm Magnum- reamers and go/no-go gauges are readily available. Buy some ammo from Double Tap or others, or buy some brass from Starline or Graf's (I'm sure others have it too) and load your own.

Now you have (better than) a .401 Powermag, with available dies, brass, and guns. I have a 10mm Magnum AMT and a Contender barrel. The Contender I shot often, the AMT is on display in my home office so I don't blow up a collectible.

If you have a Herter's Powermag revolver, I would recommend doing the same thing- they are irreplaceable. Buy a 10mm Contender barrel, ream it to the Powermag chamber, shoot your .401's that way. That is, IF you have brass and dies.

I have one of the Ruger Buckeye Sports .38-40/10mm Blackhawks. It has the 7.5" barrel. I bought it new in '90 and haven't put 500 rounds through it! I bought it primarily as a collectible so I never bothered to shoot it over a chrono.

Anyway, though I don't shoot .40 S&W through it, I have never had an issue with bullet pull in either 10mm or .38-40. Are you having a bullet setback issue using the taper crimp?

Quote from: RJM52 on December 06 2019 08:25:34 PM MST
.401 PowerMag would be a simple solution...

Like THAT round turned out a winner!  ROFL!!!

1.2 per person, averaged across the entire nation?
















We need more guns!

Quote from: TonyRumore on December 05 2019 03:13:59 PM MST
If you're going to all the trouble to make special rimmed 10mm brass, you might as well make it full magnum length around 1.3".
With the new interest in the 10mm these days, it would not surprise me if one of the big guys trots out a 40 Magnum revolver.  Maybe SHOT 2020.

Tony

And maybe I could convince you to build another M1 carbine like your dad's? I would even be willing to accept it in the standard 10mm case...

Quote from: Bluebird5000 on December 05 2019 12:51:26 PM MST
@woods_walker

I'm glad you mentioned Reid's ammunition, I was not aware they existed. Their soft point 200gr at 1100fps looks like a pretty good hunting option to me.

@Kenk another option IMO for a good bullet would be Hornady's 180 or 200gr XTP, it will not be as hot as Underwood and would probably penetrate more based on the tests I've seen, since it would expand more slowly.

Also another good round from what I've seen in tests is 180gr Federal Trophy Bonded, it uses the bear claw bonding technology that was used to make the famous 62gr 5.56 bear claw ammunition.

Bluebird,

I am very selective when it comes to a recommendation, and it's no different for ammo, restaurants or lawnmowers. I never read that Reed's Ammo was good- I learned it by dealing with them. I pleased to be able to help them gain new interest here.
As far as Hornady is concerned, I love their bullets, never used their ammo in a handgun or rifle- but I am curious! Their bullets though... they are my #1 choice for my jacketed handgun loads.
But Federal Ammo for the 10mm? In my opinion, Federal failed the 10mm crowd long ago with poor quality brass and sub-standard velocity. MAYBE they got better- I had enough of their misrepresentations of their products that I won't give them another chance. There are too many GOOD manufacturers of 10mm ammo out there to waste time with Federal.

Well, jiminthe burg is right- using full or half moon clips takes no more time than using speedloaders. Since the first revolver was chambered in an auto pistol cartridge, it was clearly understood that a properly manufactured cylinder does not need rimmed brass.

This is a case of someone TRYING to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. And as a member and lurker on several other forums- some of which are very 10mm focused- I do not remember ever reading any comments about the need for this. 

It's sorta like putting a screen door on a submarine. You can, but what does it accomplish?

I am totally baffled as to why anybody would be doing this. I have auto pistols that chamber and feed the 10mm Auto cartridge just fine. I have revolvers in 10mm that do the same thing just as reliably. So why is this needed?

I bought a Smith & Wesson Model 610 in 1991. I still shoot it. I use moon clips. They work great.
I can honestly tell you that in all these years of being in a network of fellow 10mm collectors and shooters, I have never heard anybody say,"You know, I need some 10mm rimmed brass."   

Shadow,

Way back when, I was given 2 Maxwell House 3# coffee cans full of that same brass. I thought it was a great score at a time when 10mm brass was far less available than it is today.

I quickly put that brass aside as being too damaged for reloading. You are correct- split cases were a common thing in that brass, I also observed "torn" extraction grooves. After tumbling and sorting the brass I would end up with a failure/discard rate of as much as 8%, and my case loss after attempting to resize would push that to 11%- and this was once fired brass!

Too much trouble and uncertainty for me. I think that brass is boxed up in the garage somewhere, or it went to scrap... or it was traded off? Who cares- I haven't seen it in 20 years and I'm not looking for it now! BUT-

I wish I had those coffee cans. Those old metal coffee cans were great and even better if you still had the plastic lid.