That's a killer price, especially when you don't need to pay for shipping. I'd stock up.

Wishing you the best back in Fayetteville. I was stationed at Bragg three different times for a total of nine years. I know how bad things can get in that area with a big storm. This was one of the biggest ever. Good luck.

A direct link to the article:  http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2018/09/man-stops-new-mexico-bear-attack-with.html

I think this sums up my first thoughts on his choice of "175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock" loads,

QuoteHe is alive, and looking at heavier, deep penetrating bullets, in 10mm cartridges designed for bear defense, to carry in his Glock.

Whew!  Thanks!

ctsr5pby4 and anewty6hk are over 700 posts each, all in rapid succession and all in the Shotguns forum. A moderator/administrator needs to ban them for an immediate, short term fix.

I recently had a good experience with Kimber customer service as well.

With an N-frame I think the perfect 10mm option would be 10mm Magnum. There are custom gunsmiths who could make one up for you. The 10mm Mag cartridge is 1.56" overall but in an N-Frame it could be loaded all the way out to .44 Magnum length.  The use of moon clips would provide the added benefit of shooting standard 10mm and .40 S&W cartridges as well. And, since the 610 is already based on the N-frame, weight and size of a 10mm Magnum version would be comparable.

Why not just use full moon clips? I had a Smith & Wesson M1917 and later a Model 1955, both in .45ACP. The auto rim cartridges were a drag. I stuck to using full moon clips and  they worked great. If I had a 10mm revolver that's what I would want to use, moon clips

I have yet to find a deer wearing more than one layer of denim.

I too am interested in hearing how they perform because I just ordered a couple of boxes. I ordered the 200gr Jacketed Hollow Points loaded with Nosler bullets.

I bought some and they are a different bullet. The box says, "200gr Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast FN, 1250 fps". The bullets have a maroon color coating. I chronographed them at 1235 fps from my 6" Kimber. They were the best grouping rounds I've fired so far! Personally, I'm glad they're coated.

I shot all of mine up but I'm about to order some more.

Underwood's 200gr hard cast is a great load. I recently ran several of the higher energy factory loads over a chronograph. The Underwood 200gr hard cast delivered  1235 fps/677 ft-lbs from my 6" 1911. It also grouped better than any of the other loads I tested.

I have not yet hunted with my 10mm and I have never hunted big game with dogs. Therefore, I cannot offer any specific advice. But I have to ask whether complete penetration of the bear would be a concern with a pack or hounds and whether a bullet with an expanding hollow point that stays in the bear might be a better choice. Again, just asking.

I wasn't trying to start a brand war.

It all just comes down to preferences:

• Plastic vs Steel
• Large capacity vs Standard capacity
• Striker fired vs Hammer fired
• Three safeties all connected and automatically released by pulling a 5.5 lb trigger vs three safeties (series 80)
  that are separate and independent of a 6 lb trigger that can be worked as low as a crisp 3 lbs if desired.
• A pistol unsafe on the dance floor vs a pistol that is safe on any dance floor --- https://youtu.be/9AXSzybhZd0

Again, it's all just a matter of personal preference. The Kimber is a nice new option for those who prefer a 1911.

I have carried .45ACP into the woods for years. My first .45 was a S&W M1917.  I loaded it with full moon clips and it was my "trail" gun for several years. I replaced it with a 1911. Recently,  I got the itch for something a little more powerful. I tried changing springs and small parts in my Colt 1991Z and shooting .45 Super. What a disaster. It beat me up, beat the gun up, and mean time between failures was probably ten rounds!

I realized the only proper thing to do was to purchase another pistol. I love the 1911 platform. So I looked at many options, including the Coonan in .357 Mag. --- http://www.coonaninc.com/product/357-magnum-classic/ 

I had never paid attention to the 10mm up to this point. But once I "discovered" the 10mm I started looking at all sorts of things about it. I focused on my requirements and compared the options. I wanted more - more bullet diameter, more bullet mass, and more bullet momentum. More than the .357 would provide. In the end, it came down to a decision between a 10mm 1911 and a .45 auto that could handle .45 Super with no changes, right out of the box.  I decided on a 6" barreled (for a little more!) 10mm and I'm glad I did.

Someday I may pick up a .357 Magnum Coonan auto so I can have even MORE fun. But the 10mm will still be my "trail" gun.

Rojo27 and Kenk, the .45 ACP cartridges you discussed illustrate exactly the sort of differences I was talking about. The Lucky Gunner's gel tests help us determine what each of them is better suited for.

The Federal .45 ACP +P 230gr HST is a great face-to-face defensive cartridge. It expands fast and dumps its energy quickly without over-penetrating. But, despite its +P rating, it would not be my choice for wilderness carry because of those very same characteristics.



Conversely, Sig's .45 ACP 200gr V-Crown has twice the penetration, carries its energy very deep, and is more likely to smash through bone and to produce an exit wound that leaves a decent blood trail. I would consider it a good choice for wilderness carry and hunting. But it would not be my first choice for urban defensive carry because of those very same characteristics.



And here we are, back to the OP's original question, "What deficiency does the Hornady load present for self defense, hunting, target shooting, zombie apocalypse, etc that would make the other available factory loads SUBSTANTIALLY better?" There is nothing wrong with the 180gr XTP for it's intended use. But I contend that use does not include wilderness carry and hunting and, yes, there are factory loads substantially better for those uses.

Of course you make good sense. Hornady ammo has a great reputation, is reasonably priced, and you can find it in any decent sized sporting goods store or gun shop.

I suspect the 180gr XTP bullet was originally developed for defensive and law enforcement use in the .40 S&W. I'm new to the 10mm and so far all I've been shooting with my 6" Kimber is paper. Nevertheless, I procured the pistol for hunting and woods carry. The question for me is whether or not I can expect adequate penetration with the 180gr XTP on deer and bear. I have my concerns.

Hornady says, "Precise serrations divide the XTP® into symmetrical sections, strategically weakening the jacket and initiating controlled expansion even at low velocities." They load the same 180gr XTP bullets in .40 S&W and 10mm cartridges. The .40 S&W load has an advertised muzzle velocity of 950 fps. If the bullet is made to expand at 950 fps then how is it going to perform at 1250 fps from a 5" 10mm pistol? Worse, I chronographed the 10mm 180gr XTP load at 1312 fps from my 6" barreled pistol. I want a hunting bullet to pass through a big animal. I want deep penetration and destruction of bones and vitals. And, I want a good blood trail to follow. But how can a self-defense bullet designed to expand "rapidly" at 950 fps not expand too rapidly for hunting use at 1312 fps?  Therein may lie the deficiency you asked for, at least as far as my intended use.

And that is why we see a variety of loads and bullets in every caliber.