Hey Welcome
Good job. You got pretty much got what everyone else got with the listed loads.
The XTPs are very long bullets. Can't be sure, but I'll bet they are the longest of all of them. So it's not surprising you had limited powder space.
Curious to know what kind of muzzle flash you got burning that much AA#9 in a shortish barrel?

The only other powders I would suggest are Blue Dot, AA#7, 800-X or 3N38.. If you can find them. I've had good results with all of those.
800-X is kind of a pain to work with because you really need to check/adjust each throw out of a powder measure. But the results are clean and consistent loads.

If you cared to do a pull-down on those Underwood loads, if you have any left.. Curious to see if there have been any changes...

It has been my experience with copper plated bullets is that what little accuracy you can get with them deteriorates rapidly when velocity gets above 900 fps or so. Even with an aftermarket barrel. Don't bother with those. Stick with jacketed or homogeneous (copper) bullets.

If you send me some, I'd be happy to look at them.. Do a full work-up..

Here is data from the new Lyman #51;
Added BE-86, CFE Pistol, and AutoComp.
Interesting that they don't include AA #9 with the heavies...

Here is the new Hornady 11;

Quote from: sparkyv on December 11 2022 08:08:33 PM MST
Where can I find a powder measure stand like that, gentlemen?

I made that myself. I got so fed up with LEE measures that I came up with what you see there so I could use my RCBS measures. I thought it would be humorous to paint it red to look like a LEE accessory... 

Thanks for the heads up on that mold manufacturer..
You have the same set-up I do!


Can also put the Little Dandy in there.

Not surprised about UTube... It's run by, well, you know...

With the Winchester round, I can't see this being 760, as 760 max's out at 55.5grs. Now Superformance is a possibility. It max's out at 59.7.. good match. Never got an opportunity to pick up any Superformance before the world turned to crap. In any event, the Winchester round is most impressive.

The Federal round is loaded with 52.0grs of something. Hybrid 110V max's out at 57.0grs. The starting load is 53.0grs. It looks like it is the same 'family' but the factory propellant would have to be faster than Hybrid 100V.

The ELD-X round could be anything. I included a pic of IMR 4451 for a possibility.

Propellants have certainly come a long way from when I got started back in the late '60's..

Hello
I was recently given some 30/06 factory ammo.
20 Winchester 180gr Ballistic Silvertip
17 Hornady 178gr ELD-X
and (1) round of Federal Fusion 180gr.

So, naturally I wanted to see what was inside. That?s what I do.

HORNADY 178gr ELD-X

HORNADY 30-06
178gr ELD-X

Adertised Velocity 2750 (24")
C.O.L.  3.254"
CASE;
Length    2.484"
Shoulder  .436"
Base      .465"
Weight    181.4grs. w/primer
BULLET;
Weight    178.3grs.
Diameter  .3080"
Length    1.405"
HEADSTAMP  HORNADY 30/06













FEDERAL FUSION 180gr

FEDERAL FUSION 30/06
180gr
Advertised Velocity 2700
C.O.L.  3.176"
CASE;
Length    2.485"
Shoulder  .436"
Base      .466"
Weight    206.4grs. w/primer
BULLET;
Weight    180.3grs.
Diameter  .3085"
Length    1.214"
HEADSTAMP  FC 30/06











WINCHESTER 180gr BALLISTIC SILVERTIP

Winchester 30/06
180gr Ballistic Silvertip
Advertised Velocity 2750
C.O.L.  3.277"
CASE;
Length    2.486"
Shoulder  .438"
Base      .465"
Weight    193.4grs. w/primer
BULLET;
Weight    179.9grs.
Diameter  .3076"
Length    1.359"
HEADSTAMP  WINCHESTER 30/06















I wouldn?t bother posting anything about this, but I found the propellant charge for the Winchester rounds very interesting. I discovered previously that my rifle will not shoot molly-coated bullets. Period..  So, I went about pulling the whole box and went about replacing the Silvertip bullet with Hornady 180gr Spire Points.
Removed the decapping pin from the neck sizing die and ran the brass though, then treated the brass to the 22? inside the neck chamfer tool.
As each round was dis assembled, the propellant charge was weighed. The first came in at 59.6grs. Most of the box was right around that, but I found charges from 59.4 up to one round weighing in at 60.0grs. The heaviest charge I have ever seen in factory ammo was 57.0grs. This is some exceptionally slow stuff.. You would think with a ball propellant like this the charges would be more consistent. Well, that?s factory ammo for you. There was enough ?excess? where I could charge each case with exactly 59.6grs.
Another thing that was interesting, the charges were very ?clumpy?. I literally had to dig with an ice pick to break up the clumps and get it all in the bowl for weighing. And then had to use the back end of a screw driver handle to finish breaking up the clumps so I could pour the charge back in the case. Never seen that before with commercial ammo.

The Hornady ammo was very typical, nothing unusual about it.

Now the one Federal round was curious. Why such a light charge at 52.0grs? This propellant ?looks? exactly like the propellant found in some Fed Fusion 165gr .308 Win rounds I did a pull-down for a while ago. I wonder if Federal is biasing the ammo toward auto-loading rifles..? 


https://postimg.cc/gallery/KFgrjrc

Now it?s range time. Let?s see how this stuff shoots.




The Hornady ammo was good. No surprises there.
The Fed round was predictably slow.

But, the Winchester ammo. Of course it?s not technically factory ammo anymore but.. This rifle has NEVER seen an 180gr bullet go this fast, or any rifle I?ve ever worked with for that matter. That Silvertip ammo must be some hot stuff! The brass extracted with no issue and felt recoil was mild actually.

Well, that?s it. Just thought some like-minded ammo nuts would find this interesting.

Thanks Shadow
That's pretty much what I remember..
Barrel length does make some difference.
Last time working with the 200gr HAP bullet, I was able to get 1159 fps avg 28 fps spread with a G20SF and 13.5grs AA#9. And that was right on the ragged edge for pressure. I have not been able to exceed that safely.
Always wondered why Western Powders never included ENFORCER in their 10mm data..

Has anyone chronographed the original Norma ammo recently?
This ammo, and the 10mm was introduced about the same time affordable home chronographs were coming into vogue. I picked up my first Oehler in 1980. I didn't start shooting 10mm until 2012.
I recall reading some posts or articles about the Norma factory loads where, as with much of the 'advertised velocities' we see, didn't quite get there. In fact, the ammo was pretty much on par with much of the 'boutique' ammo we have today. Very hot but wasn't up to the numbers that were advertised.
I've noticed that the 5 inch barrels shoot ammo much faster than the 4 or 4 1/2 inch barrels. That extra bit of barrel seems to make a significant difference in 10mm.

Another look at it..
https://www.10mm-firearms.com/index.php?topic=9209.0

Hope everyone has a blessed day today

I was looking around the Hodgdon loading data site and discovered that IMR has provided data for IMR BLUE in .40 S&W. I looked around to see if they offered data for more cartridges but could only find data for 38 Special and .38 Special +P.


Hodgdon Landing | Hodgdon (hodgdonreloading.com)

A few years ago I did a little project with my Sigma 40F shooting 155gr Remington JHPs and posted that over at the S&W website.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/302121-loading-40-s-w-155gr-jhp.html

I wanted to see where IMR BLUE fit in with this, so loaded up five rounds with the Rem bullet.
Looking closely at the 155gr data, IMR loaded this seemingly light. The pressure was lower than all the other loads. Having worked with BLUE DOT quite a bit and comparing with IMR BLUE, BLUE DOT is a tad faster than IMR BLUE, and IMR BLUE doesn?t produce the velocities that BLUE DOT does. So I bumped it up 0.3 tenths to 10.8grs. Could probably take it up a bit more.
While I was at it I included a max load of AutoComp that wasn?t included in the project. Probably because I didn?t have any at the time.



Well is was painfully obvious, pun intended, that this gun wanted nothing to do with AutoComp with a max load of 7.8grs. Recoil was significant and they were all over the place.

But, IMR BLUE wasn?t bad at all. This group is as good as any with 155gr bullets. The gun with its current sight configuration is right on the money with 180gr bullets. The faster 155?s shoot low.



Now, as for .38 Special..
When I first got a hold of some IMR BLUE I did some experimenting with  125gr JHP .38 Special +P?s and .357 Magnum.



I worked up to 9.9grs with IMR BLUE and got the same velocity I got with 5.6grs of IMR TARGET, even with the Winchester mag primer, which tends to boost velocities a bit. No where near the velocity IMR published. I wonder if IMR is using vented test barrels?

Well, that?s all the fun for today.  If anyone is interested in the .357 results let me know.

I wonder if this is where BB buys those bullets from... ;

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-ch-38-357-180-gr-lbt-wfn-per-100-in-plastic-ammo-box.html

The sample bullet I measured was .3568".. I suppose BB could special order that diameter..