No. I'm not jealous. I just want to know why a guy associates his product with an organization that doesn't use it.  Pretty simple.

No chip on my shoulder.

But like you, I would love to hear from Tony on why he continues to reference "SOCOM" when he has no reason to do so.

Honestly, he should call it the "10mm TROMIX" and the "458 TROMIX" because after all, by his own admission he primarily builds firearms that "look cool" and are for "recreation"

Sorry but I don't see where SOCOM continues to fit in there.

So why use it?

Quote from: Blades on February 25 2016 07:07:18 PM MST
Soooo, I'm guessing Not_A_Seal isn't buying one? 

Honestly, I own two 10mm pistols. A Bren Ten and a Sig P220 Match Stainless Elite. The former is a BBQ gun I don't shoot and the later is a BBQ gun I do.

And really, that's what all this "SOCOM" stuff Tony produces is, "BBQ Guns". In reality it's not used by any entity or agency (and no, just because someone in and agency has one doesn't constitute use). The 458 doesn't even have a DODDIC.

Why not call it and all the cartridges he makes "TROMIX"?

Shadow and Mongo

I am more than familiar with the "458 SOCOM" bedtime story which as I said in my post is essentially BS because it was built based on a discussion with a bunch of guys who had no authority to generate requirements or procure Jack and squat.

But in Tony's defense, OCO money was flowing like water back then and he probably thought he'd get some sole source contract to fulfill a USON or 9 Line and knew zero about the requirements process, the FAR or PEO-SOF. So, he made a business decision, built some guns, handed some out and demo'd a few at some industry days.

But there NEVER was a valid "SOCOM" requirement.

I can tell you that when someone from industry uses the following phrase: "(insert name of unit/agency) came to us and asked us to make (insert their widget's name)"

The truth is that 80% of the time what they SHOULD be saying is; "my cousin's sister's hair dresser's son hung out with me in a bar and said that this is what SOCOM needs"

And for the remaining 20% they should be saying: "(insert name of unit/agency) released an RFI/RFP on FBO and we submitted this for it"

Oh, and in regards to companies that respond to an RFI/RFP and aren't selected. Don't buy the BS story that it's rigged because they're debriefed as to why they weren't.

So, if there's no official SOCOM requirement, why refer to it as such?

If it's for marketing, say so. But also realize that identifying any thing as such is a bit disingenuous because it technically isn't a "SOCOM" or "SOST" cartridge.

And honestly, without that "SOCOM" moniker and associated bedtime story, it would've never been lapped up by the fanboys or made it on those lame tactical shows hosted by former SEALs.

Hopefully my vernacular wasn't beyond Mongo's comprehension and he can grasp that I'm listening but no one has answered.

(Hands Mongo his mic back and pats him on the head)

And unless your counter argument contains can reference at a minimum a USON, 9 Line that has KSA. KPP and a PSPEC with thresholds and objectives, don't say anything because I'll just embarrass you and you'll be forced to ban me to make yourself feel better.

Yeah... I don't want my second post here to be the proverbial flash bang thrown into the room but I gotta know... "Why?" And, why do people insist on associating the "SOCOM" moniker with wildcat rounds? Because I don't recall ANY release coming out of the associated program office seeking sources or requesting info for a quasi pistol rifle round.

And let's be honest. The 458 SOCOM was NEVER adopted by ANYONE in SOCOM.

Yeah yeah, someone talked to someone and that someone was affiliated with a SOCOM unit and blah blah blah. But it isn't based off a formal requirement. There's no government program attached to any of this generating an ICD/CDD to be routed to the SOCOM BoD or JCIDS process.

So, is this akin to a redneck saying "hold my beer and watch this" i.e.; "hey I gotta cool idea"?

Because if it is, why attach the "SOCOM" branding? Is it because it sounds cool? If so, why not call it the "10mm Trident" and talk about how it came about after a conversation with some guys over beers at Boneshakers in Dam Neck ? Lol.

And before someone spouts off that every round in use started as a wildcat" as an argument, remember, those rounds, to include the 6.8 and 300 Blackout were associated to a requirement, not a discussion with dudes in a bar who don't generate requirements lol.

I will concede that it's a nifty toy for those who have disposable liquid assets but there's ZERO applicability beyond that.

So, "why"?

Greetings from Virginia