Thanks, Rooster41 for checking. I did find a 10mm follower with spring and ordered it even though it said for 9rd mag. I didn't know anyone made a 9rnd, only 10 rd mag's.  Worse thing that can happen is order new spring from Wolff for about $12 including S&H.

Gun involved is a estate sale gun that's 5yr old and was only test fired by factory and/or owner, never cleaned, and apparently left partially loaded. Leaving a magazine partially loaded will quickly weaken a spring rather quickly. I saw loaded mag's taken out of box from WWII fired w/o a problem several different occasions over the years.     

Will 40cal magazine follower work in a 10mm 8 round magazine? Reason I ask is I have a new 10mm magazine w/o spring or follower. Spring & follower is no problem to find for 1911 40cal, but none for 10mm.

Quote from: bigboredad on July 30 2022 09:54:42 AM MDT
That's interesting I have the 4.6 inch model and the cases are only a couple feet from me it doesn't matter if I run5.2 of 231 with a 180 or a full charge of power pistol with a 155gr xtp. I also don't have to change springs it has no problem with either load and the warmer loads don't feel as bad as the 1911 10mm

Difference is probably either perception or gun variations, if not both.

I have the M&P 10mm boxed and ready to trade when the FN High Power becomes available or maybe a new CZ 75DB.

This small light gun is no fun for range plinking of 50 to 200 rounds or more, so I got to work finding a light load. Anyway, 180 gr LPC-TC with 4.5 gr of Win 244 is a dream to shoot and even with arthritic fingers and hands I have shot 150 rounds at the steel and enjoyed the event. Thought I better mention this load of W244 hits dead center at 25yd target with top off front sight dead on level with top of rear sight. I also used this amount with Win 231 and couple others with same results. 

My Dan Wesson with factory 22lb FWS spring needs 18lb spring to reliably run these soft loads and they don't go more then couple feet from me when they hit the floor. As a side note this shows how weak the S&W springs are for sure and original factory Win 180gr JHPST are a killer to hold on to and they only run 1175fps best I remember and are not hand killing loads in the DW.

I will say the S&W 2.0 10mm has a very strong ejector and throws empties almost into next county even with the ultra-light loads for plinking.   

I bought the gun for car gun but the recoil with PD Underwood is too heavy so the old CZ75CS 9mm will stay in the vehicle loaded with Underwood PD ammo.

Seems CZ decided not to get into Colt management and guiding it to get quality back on track. I had hoped CZ/DW would take over and finally get some quality guns.

CZ had DW to drop their revolver production of all things which was a very high quality and known for accuracy and let Colt do revolvers.

What will probably happen is Colt will stay in the red and either CZ will gut the plant of most employees/staff or sell. If that happens it could end up owned by another foreign manufacture like the ARMSCO or the Turks. But who knows, it will be interesting to see what happens.

My guess in 3 to 5 years Colt will be gone.

Quote from: Raggedyman on January 06 2014 08:43:15 AM MST
nelson.jpg

70's here far as the eye can see. This is the time of year to get tests done. During the summer time I have to rush through them to avoid the blocks heating in the sun and sometimes I forget something or screw something up, invalidating a test. B E A utiful right now. 

Ouch...you have kick a man that's down. 

I hate it when we have those 35 to 40 degree weather changes it sure fires up the arthritis something fearful, the normal 20 degree swings here is bad enough.  Man oh man why did I retire here instead of Gulf Coast???

Quote from: The_Shadow on January 05 2014 03:51:46 PM MST
Retired Squid, they will be nice shooters at 10.0 grains of PP.  I think they will be about 1300-1325 fps, 8.0 grains PP gave 1225 fps for the 140's when I was doing my initial test.  I was guessing 1300-1350fps range so that will be about right for proper expansion in a hog or deer. 

i'll be looking for your post and range report...   Don't hold your breath my friend, likely to be a while before weather warms up enough. 

I just came from my shop after checking my manual and measurements on first try of 140 gr Barnes SCHP was 7.5gr of WSF by Winchester. I decided to see where the Barnes 140gr SCHP bullet seated and max amount of PP w/o compressing and it was 10.5g of powder.

I loaded a few at 10gr to try, but weather has put the kibosh on that idea for a while I guess. Over night low predicted to be -1 and 6 degrees for high tomorrow, think I need to be further south.

Since I don't have $400 guns to test handloads with I think I'll join Geeman also. I do know with the Barns all copper HP the bullet is too long to get more then what I was using (about IIRC 7g PP) and seat bullet reep enough to allow them to properly fit into magazine. Due to their wide mouth they have to seat deeper in the case to fit in the magazine's and that don't leave a lot of room because the Barn's 140g HP is longer then my Hornady 180 and maybe tad longer then the 200gr but don't have any of those loose to measure to be sure.

On the up side I went to gun show yesterday and bought two boxes of 100 each new Starline NP brass for $28 total and that's about half of what the last batch cost me from Mid-Way USA. Too bad that was all he had, but hey that more then replaces brass lost over the last couple years in the grass at the range.  

I was going to load a few more today but things came up. Maybe tomorrow.

Did you actually chrono those or are you going by their numbers? Wonder what powder if that's true they use? I'm not out in my shop at the moment but I tried two powders and could not get enough powder in case and still get a bullet seated enough to fit the magazine to get close to that number. I used PP for one I think, but winter weather set in and best I remember I was in 1100fps range at best load. A 30% plus increase over my load seems unrealistic to me, but I'm no expert. 

Quote from: Raggedyman on November 26 2013 04:19:33 PM MST
I've never been attacked by cars or lumber.

That's a good one, I enjoyed it as I assume it was in jest. I have been attacked by them and I have had the splinters and busted knuckles to prove it youngster.  

While my testing is not performed in a laboratory and I don't conduct enough test shots for a statistically relevant result, I strive to achieve the best accuracy that can be expected from a layman in these conditions. I do not use "jello". I use calibrated 10% gelatin. It is FAR more dense than jello. The experts consider it to be the ONLY medium that can produce results useful for predicting the terminal behavior of bullets. What that means is that although my own tests are not as dependable as professional lab tests, they are far more relevant than "testing" conducted with chunks of wood, buckets of mud, wet pack, etc. Generally speaking, my results are also probably more relevant than tests conducted in Simtest or Cleargel, though those results are usually consistent with my own. It's even fair to say that my tests are more accurate than some other laymen gelatin tests because I post my calibration results, whereas a lot of guys don't.

But don't take my word for it; I'm just some dude on teh interwebz. This is what the experts have to say about the relevance of properly conducted ballistic gelatin tests:

I don't need to take your word about it as I've known about proper testing procedure firearm for over 40 plus years and that includes "jello" ballistic testing. I was using humor there incase it went over your head or somehow missed it by reading to fast or incompletely. Maybe I should have used the smilies, I often failed to use them so as to be sure people know humor without it having to slap them in the face. I will try to be more careful and use them in the future. 

Quote
"The IWBA published some of Gene Wolberg's material from his study of San Diego PD officer involved
shootings that compared bullet performance in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin with the autopsy
results using the same ammunition. When I last spoke with Mr. Wolberg in May of 2000, he had
collected data on nearly 150 OIS incidents which showed the majority of the 9mm 147 gr bullets
fired by officers had penetrated 13 to 15 inches and expanded between 0.60 to 0.62 inches in both
human tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin. Several other agencies with strong, scientifically based
ammunition terminal performance testing programs have conducted similar reviews of their shooting
incidents with much the same results--there is an extremely strong correlation between properly
conducted and interpreted 10% ordnance gelatin laboratory studies and the physiological effects of
projectiles in actual shooting incidents." - Dr. Roberts



"The test of the wound profiles validity is how accurately they portray the projectile-tissue
interaction observed in shots that penetrate the human body.  Since most shots in the human body
traverse various tissues, we would expect the wound profiles to vary somewhat, depending on the
tissues traversed.  However, the only radical departure has been found to occur when the
projectile strikes bone: this predictably deforms the bullet more than soft tissue, reducing its
overall penetration depth, and sometimes altering the angle of the projectile's course. Shots
traversing only soft tissues in humans have shown damage patterns of remarkably close
approximation to the wound profiles.

The bullet penetration depth comparison, as well as the similarity in bullet deformation and yaw
patterns, between human soft tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin have proven to be consistent and
reliable.  Every time there appeared to be an inconsistency a good reason was found and when the
exact circumstances were matched, the results matched.  The cases reported here comprise but a
small fraction of the documented comparisons which have established 10% ordnance gelatin as a
valid tissue simulant." - Dr. Fackler

But it was I assure all in jest so relax and go with the flow. The reason we were shooting blocks and cars later was to show a friend how little protection a door of a car or the wood frame and drywall house he lives in would offer him and we had a lot more fun doing it then chronograph checking loads or looking at long deep holes in 10% ordnance gelation.  Unless that's what flips your skirt up.

Quote from: MCQUADE on November 19 2013 07:05:31 PM MSTI spoke with a factory rep about the weight of the recoil spring, they rate it at approx. 28lbs. The EGW extractor must be doing a hell of a job cause the brass from the Underwood loads is still going 30 feet.

I would bet the farm the "rep" misquoted the info on recoil spring weight or just took a WAG on weight. My Kimber stated in OM that it had 18# recoil spring (5" TLE/RL) and it would throw my PD hand loads 30+ feet. With 20# spring it drops those warm PD rounds 15 to 20 feet, and that's with EGW FP Stop installed. With the added weight of long slide I would bet they used a 16# spring. What a bunch of boobs at Para, my 45APC Para only had 14# installed from factory. I traded the Para off because I could not get used to the fat grips. 

My extractor is stock. 

Quote from: Intercooler on November 17 2013 09:56:33 AM MST
    I like it because it's hard to find any live volunteers    You also can see some things in that media you can't in soap, wood, wax, wet pack, etc...

I'll stick with testing on wildlife, junk cars/trucks, and wood blocks. 

I will say that the 10mm & 38Super both knocked the 3x6x18 white oak (they had a third 1' block on top to keep proper separation) a kilter on the table and the 9mm almost didn't knock them down. The 10mm hit middle of lower half of block and kicked all blocks up into air, the 38 Super just got the one block air born after being hit almost dead center.