So I grabbed 5 of the Accurate #9 rounds I was not sure about, 5 stout Longshot loads, my G20 (had back for a couple hours, see here....) and my G19 loaded with Hornady Critical defense and headed for the canyon.

See last post here: http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/how's-this-for-a-theory/msg35994/#msg35994


Target: A big 'ole brick of an ancient laptop sandwiched between 8 layers of heavy denim in front and a 1/2' catalog on the back. Backstop was a steep hill (canyon wall) of soft-ish dirt, with the target propped up by a sage bush. Close range, about 15 feet.

All 5 9mm Critical Defense rounds, complete penetration

All 10 200 grn XTPs also passed right through. I was not at all surprised the 10's went through but I was surprised that the Critical Defense made complete penetration with equal ease. I figured they would stop in the catalog.

I recovered minimal brass with no signs of over pressure. I even recovered one bullet in the dirt. It was not a 9 though, it was one of the 200 grn XTPs..base of the bullet was completely in tact and retained its shape. Inf fact in fit snug right back into the brass case.

As for expansion, it expanded but it looked like a big knob or something. The entire bullet itself looked like a lead mushroom, not an expanded hollow point.

Most of all I find it strange that the bullet I recovered was a heavy loaded, heavy bullet. All the 9's were deep into the dirt.

So while it is clear something is strange with my gun, I still did not know what. I figured its been a little while, let me call Glock and see if they have an update.

After reading them the serial# twice, they had no record of it... The guy even tried searching by intake zip code/dealer or whatever he was doing. Still zip. At his suggestion, I went down to the shop (with my receipt/ticket)that was supposed to ship it so I could have a little chat with the store owner. He of course tells me it was not back yet, to which I responded "I need a tracking number".

Well after a little scrambling and searching, he finds it. Not the tracking number, the gun... In the "lay-a-way" stack no less. I handed him my ticket and calmly asked him for my gun back.

The good news is that after I called the guy back at Glock and told him what happened, he immediately emailed me an overnight FedEx label and promised to make it right. Nice people at Glock, receptive to my concerns and at least seemed sincere in his promise to make it right.

At least I shipped it myself this time and I know FedEx will get it there. How long to fix though is anyone's guess.

Hey, at least I had the gun back for a few hours to go test some loads quick

Quote from: The_Shadow on October 11 2014 08:39:25 PM MDT
Accurate #9 has changed it used to be micro beads now it is a flattened ball powder...I have seen where the powder will push the bullet back out on compressed loads.

The batch I have is Made in Belgium and it looks likes little spheres.

What do you think Shadow, is 12.5 too much even though its .7 grn less than published MAX for same bullet?

So Hornady's published MAX is 13.2 gr #9

I am at 12.5 gr, compressed.  I am thinking I might have a bunch of bullets to pull....

However what really confuses me is the actual #9 MAX for the 200 gr XTP, 13.2 gr. There is no way possible to load 13.2 gr AND have a 1.260 COL, yet Hornady specifies it. What gives? Could it be a book error?


Shoot 'em or pull 'em? Honestly, I am kinda scared to pull them...

Ok, so I loaded 12.5 gr Accurate #9 under 200 gr XTPs in brand new Star Line brass, S&B primers with COL @ 1.260

This load is definitely compressed. Compressed to the point where the petals of the hollow point are slightly pushed in/smaller opening in tip.

I quadruple checked everything but something does not seem right. I am .7 gr UNDER Horandy book max for this projectile and powder with the correct COL... How do they figure another .7 gr of #9 could possible fit in there? Even if I tried it, I would turn hollow points into round nose FMJs lol.

The particular jug of Accurate #9 says Made in Belgium on the side. I am not sure if that means anything but I know I have come across threads discussing #9 regard Made in USA vs Belgium.

So what is next? Kevlar gloves and a Lexan face shield?

I am going to go back this down to 12.5 and see what that looks like.

Seating 200 gr XTP to a COL of 1.260 and a little under book max for Accurate #9, it looks like it will be a compressed (or damn close to it) load.

I have triple checked my measure and scale. 12.9 gr of #9 takes up a lot of case capacity. Any insights? Hornady book max is 13.2

I got my paws on a pound of Accurate #9 today 

Headed to the bench now.

Quote from: Osageid on October 05 2014 08:05:40 AM MDT
Do you have a chrony?? I think that is half the fun of working up new loads

No, not yet. I will get one sooner or later. I was thinking about this one: http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Electronics-ProChrono-Digital-Chronograph/dp/B0028MTBJ4

I am not interested in anything too fancy, just something that works. I try to keep my shooting/reloading hobby expenses in-line with my wife's hair cuts/coloring or whatever she it is she gets done. That way she can't give me grief 

Soooo, I like to spend it essential supplies. I am sure many of you understand the game lol

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 03 2014 09:18:24 PM MDT
They may have tested on a hot day in a tight chamber.

I just loaded up 50 rounds as per Hornady max load.
200 gr XTP
7.3 grs of Longshot
1.260 COL
S&B primers

I will probably load up another batch of 200 gr XTPs with Power Pistol tomorrow (7.6 grns) I also have some 180 grn XTPs to load.

I would like to use some of the HS-6 I have but my measure hates it and sticks constantly... Those are my choices for now as Acurate#9 and Blue Dot seem to be non-existent these days. I have some Titegroup but I use that for 9mm exclusively. The idea of loading 10mm with Titegroup make me shudder lol.

No rush though as I probably not get my G20 back from the mothership for at least another month. I was told 4-6 weeks and that was last Friday...

Based on my Hornady manual, they are being very conservative listing 7.3 gr of Longshot as max charge for a 200 gr XTP. At least based on other loaders Longshot recipes for the 200 gr XTP

This is a great forum and I appreciate the insights. The economic factors make a lot of sense, as do the conservative/safety tendencies of certain manuals and their loads.

With that said, I have always been a fan Longshot and Power Pistol for my 10mm loads and had successes over a wide range of "heat" levels.

I might try some Accurate #9 an Blue Dot at some point but I do not see myself hand metering IMR 800x anytime soon. Well at least not until I get a better scale.

From what I have gathered from this thread so far, I am not missing out on any magic powders.

In the the mean time, I think I will go work up some Power Pistol and Longshot loads. I picked up both 180 grn and 200 gr XTPs. I have not worked with either until now

I have been shooting and reloading for 10mm for a little while now and typically use Longshot and Power Pistol, occasionally HS-6 but it meters poorly and jams up my measure.

I have both the Lee and the Hornady reloading manuals and both call for Accurate#9 or Blue Dot for full power loads. However when I look at the pull-downs from the boutique ammo manufacturers they seem to overwhelmingly use Longshot or IMR 800x.

What gives? Why do the bullet manufacturers reloading manuals list Accurate#9 and Blue Dot as the top performer but the guys who actually manufacture 10mm ammo get better results with Longshot and IMR? Why do they list comparatively anemic loads with Longshot? I was looking through another manual (Speer I believe) at my reloading store and that manual also calls for Accurate #9 for the best performance.

For what its worth, I have not worked with IMR 800x but I am fully aware of its poor metering properties. However Longshot meters great.

What am I missing?

Quote from: sqlbullet on September 25 2014 02:14:18 PM MDT
G20/21 use the exact same lower.  Only the slide/barrel/recoil assembly are different.

More likely you just got a lemon.

Huh, interesting. So I guess that theory is out.

Well either way, this things is screwy enough that the armorer thought it definitely needed a trip to the mothership.

Assuming it is a lemon, how is Glock with accountability and righting wrongs? Should I expect the "it's within spec" response? Or any are they likely to make any trade/swap offer? I don't care if I have to pay a few bucks, I just want it to function properly.

So in relation to the problem discussed here http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/g20-ftf-feeding-off-center/
I went to visit the local certified Glock armorer. He is an older gentleman and has been at it for quite a while, this guy knows his stuff. Anyway, after observing the feeding issue, the lose fit etc... and the mag feeding into the left side of the chamber, he tore the gun apart, inspected, clean and replaced several parts all to no avail. He was stumped.

So then we start comparing the mag fit to other G20's he had in stock and the difference was clear... My mags fit loose and do in fact twist. We swapped frames/mags/slides etc every which way and the result was clear. Something is not right with my gun.

To give you a little background, I bought this firearm during the severe shortage (in North Carolina from) a dealer with serious buying power and a direct relationship with Glock, no wholesaler middle man. This was right in the middle of the extreme shortage of Glocks, as in they didn't exist.

With that said, this gun has never been quite right right. Its had odd feeding problems, RSA issues, slide not returning to battery, a completely bad mag that Glock replaced (they also sent me a new RSA) and also reassembly issues/difficulties that the armorer also noticed on his own and found odd.

Long story short, the gun is now on its way back to Glock for evaluation. Its kind of a wild theory and the armorer is not saying that he is right but he is wondering if frame molded for a G21 somehow ended up getting stamped with the correct serial number (all the numbers match) for a G20.... he did not have a G21 on hand to compare but the magwell seemed to be the correct size for .45 cal mags but too large for 10mm mags, as demonstrated by all of our comparisons.

Its a wild theory/idea and highly unlikely but considering the rush to pump out pistols when it was made, that is exactly the type of circumstance that could allow that to happen. I guess we will know for sure when Smyrna reports back...