I like the Lehigh 140gr extreme penatrator but I'm fairly sure CA has a clause about not using non expanding bullets for hunting. That being said I don't have a lot of experience with  all copper hollow points in 10mm, but I've seen very impressive results with 200gr copper hollow points out of a 4" 44 magnum. At 30yds it pierced the skull of a 250lb sow. And we recovered the intact perfectly expanded projectile in the left rear ham. You're not going to get as good of penetration with the 140gr 10mm offerings but should be plenty of performance for pig and deer sized game.

My_old_glock.....ty for putting it more scientifically. I guess my initial point was to think of flesh like non-neutronion fluid. The harder you hit it the harder it becomes. We're pushing our 10mm bullets to extreme velocities and in essence working away from our goal. If you look at .45 colt bullets in the 700-800 fps realm you see amazing penetration. I'm trying to find a good balance between penetration and tissue damage for my hunting rounds. I think 200gr xtp's  in the 1100fps range might be my ticket. The only thing I'm giving up is long range trajectory.

I ordered some Underwood 380 and 10mm both loaded with Lehigh extreme penatrater bullets. We're going to try and kill a Hog with the 380 and see if the bullet actually cuts flesh with hydraulic pressure the way it cuts ballistics gel. We have pretty specific laws in Florida about hunting with non expanding bullets, but on private property hogs are fair game by any means.

Shadow..I know it's not a heavy bullet has anyone done any testing with the 140gr lehigh extreme penatrater? I see Underwood is loading Lehigh bullets. Looks promising for us hunters but it may over penetrate for self defense.

All valid points. I like to use hollow points on deer and pigs to increase my odds of nicking vitals but at the same time I still believe in the Elmer Keith theory "Two holes bleed better than one". Maybe I should just alternate hard cast and hollow points in my magazine....hahahaha

I'm not not new to firearms, but in the last two years my eyes have been opened to bullet performance. Obviously full Metal jacket and hard cast bullets will typically always penatrate deeper but I've seen that extreme velocity can Actually lessen penatration with hollow points and jacked soft points. My theory and the purpose of this discussion is the max velocity and energy transfer on impact hurts penatration. Plus I've noticed bullets like 200gr XTP and Nosler seem to perform best in the 1000-1100fps range. Once you push them faster they expand too rapidly, fragment and don't penatrate as well. So in conclusion for hunters at least I think nitro 10mm loads are not the way to go. Has anyone else experienced this or do you have different thoughts on the subject?

I found some at my local gun shop today. It's been a few months and was wondering how the test loads went?

I think Glock answered your question with the new Glock model 40. I built mine on a G20sf and used a lonewolf 6.62" threaded barrel with a 24lb recoil spring. It's digested the hottest loads imaginable. Most people in this forum will agree with hot loads you'll need a heavy recoil spring and the more mass (i.e. longslide) you can add the better off you'll be.

I'm gonna say "Fail" for the "T" series reloads. I ran them over 10.5 grains of Blue Dot and shot them side by side with some 200 grain XTP'S over 11 grains of Blue Dot. At 50yds the 200's grouped nicely point of aim in 3-4 in groups. The "T" series all flew low right and opened up to 6-8 in groups. For hunting loads I'm disappointed. I'll test them a little more at self defense ranges maybe I'll find a use for them?

These are Black Talon bullets. My department has always used Winchester Ranger ammo for duty. Last year we started getting Ranger "T" serie. It's the new incarnation of the black talon without the black color. As far as I know the loaded ammunition is only available to LEO and the bullets themselves can not be bought at all. I started a new project by pulling about 100 "T" series 40's. I'm going to reload them in my 10mm and see how they perform.  The original 10mm Black Talons were 200gr/950fps. I'm hoping to push the 180's in the 1300's. Hopefully the bullet will perform well at that velocity and this will be my go to pig round. Has anyone else had any experience reloading black talon type bullets in 10mm?

I upgraded to a 24# spring. Right now I've experienced no malfunction with handloads and weak factory ammo.

From an armours perspective I can tell you I'm not a fan of the Gen4 glocks.  They work great as long as you don't make any changes. The actual changes between the models were subtitle but for some reason you can't improve upon the trigger (I tried with a new G41) and they don't like aftermarket barrels? Any one wanting to customize a Glock I will always recommend a Gen3, and for the time being Glock is still producing them.

You guys were talking about 22's. I lucked out and found some new CCI Segmented Subsonics (say that three times fast). These things are my new favorite 22 round. Instant death on any small critters.  When the season opens I'm gonna take em squirrel hunting. My CZ 452 UL is printing about 1/2" groups at 50yrd with them. I just don't know what I'm gonna do when I run out....lol

Currently I only have access to blue dot. My 10gr loads under a 200gr XTP shot very nicely at 1200fps.  I'm gonna work up more. Some guys say their going as high as 11gr but I don't think I'll push it past 10.5gr.  It will all come down to what's the most accurate since a 200gr XTP at 1200fps will kill anything I hunt on four legs there's no reason to push too far into the danger zone. I already know my G24 will drop a deer in its tracks at 48yds with a factory 180gr Rem UMC hollow point. Those chroned less than 1200fps and that bullet broke both shoulders and was recovered under the skin on the opposite side. Text book performance out of cheap factory ammo. Go figure.

DenStinett: in Florida the state law allowing the safe discharge of firearms anywhere supercedes all city and county laws. Guys like that choose to push the law to its limits and unfortunately make responsible gun owners look bad. In the city I live in a guy built a range in his yard in a trailer park.  Back stop or not the potential to have a stray round kill someone is just too great for me to ever do something like that in good conscience.  Last year another guy shot his neighbor while practicing in his back yard. There were no criminal charges but I can only imagine the civil suit. As a life NRA member I agree we shouldn't give up our rights but as a human being with common sense I think these people shouldn't do things "just because it's their right".