Evening, my question is how far is to far when implementing a 10mm with iron sights and high quality shooting stick (s) for whitetail ?, in the recent past, I have taken MN whitetail with a G20, and also a RIA Ultra FS HC 10mm at 25 yards or less, both in a ground blind with Jim Shocke Primos Trigger Sticks. This fall I will be hunting in the same fashion, but with the Sig P220 Hunter, using Underwood's 200gr XTP rd. I'm sure there are many that brag about 75 - 100 yard kill shots with iron sights, but I'm just not one of those guys. Guess the bottom line for me is the same, 25 - 30 for a clean, ethical kill....Thoughts?
Thanks
Ken
Yes, I'm thinking like 50 yards max.
Good luck [emoji1360]
Search "Razor Dobbs 10mm" on YouTube. He has videos of whitetails taken with a Dan Wesson at 100 yards with irons. It can be done ethically if your willing to invest in the practice.
Absolutely, plus it's Razor taking the shot from that distance 😀
just because a very proficient or trick shooter can make 100 yd shots with a iron sighted pistol doesn't mean everyone is capable of reliably taking game that way. also keep in mind how much velocity/energy a pistol bullet still has at long range. sure a low energy .22 rimfire has killed almost every game animal but shot placement has to be precise and the range is always close when it does happen. if an expert pistolero can do it, fine and my hats off to him. but I will use my rifle for hunting past 50 yds. although all my handgun harvested game has been shot at 20-30 yds. my $.02
Thanks Blaster
It all depends on the shooter of course, but I think the maximum distance is the distance you can hit a 5" circle ten times out of ten, repeatedly. For most people shooting a handgun with irons from a rest, that's probably right around 20 yards. For most people shooting a scoped rifle from a field position, that's probably about 70 yards, and no more that twice that from a sturdy rest.
One of the great failings of hunter education in the US is that there is no demonstrated marksmanship requirement for getting a license. Most people fancy themselves to be much better marksmen than they actually are.
Poor shot placement due to excessive distance is the top cause of wounded and lost animals. Wounding an animal and thus sentencing it to a lingering and agonizing death is unacceptable. Any shot that isn't a dead-lock should not be taken...it's not like your family is going to starve if that deer doesn't come home with you.
People who make hunting videos don't show you the shots that went bad or the animals that were wounded and not recovered. 100 yard shot with pistol irons? That's simply not ethical, no matter who you are. Possible...sure, but "possible" and "responsible" are terms that share no common ground.
Well put, Thanks Muskrat!
Utah has a marksmanship requirement. Not a hard one, but you do have to meet a certain requirement to pass. Probably on par with what you are describing when I think back.
I have killed deer with a pistol (.45ACP) out to about 30 yards. 50 would be tops for a clean kill with irons, but that is even pushing it.
For me its 50-60 yards. MAYBE Id push 75 if everything was PERFECT. But closer is Always better.
Its a personal thing and many a internet argument has been created by pushing ones opinions upon another. ;D ;D
CW
Quote from: cwlongshot on September 03 2020 07:55:56 AM MDT
a internet argument has been created
Arguments on the internet don't exist. Wanna argue about it!? :P
Quote from: Muskrat on September 02 2020 08:55:31 AM MDT
It all depends on the shooter of course, but I think the maximum distance is the distance you can hit a 5" circle ten times out of ten, repeatedly. For most people shooting a handgun with irons from a rest, that's probably right around 20 yards. For most people shooting a scoped rifle from a field position, that's probably about 70 yards, and no more that twice that from a sturdy rest.
One of the great failings of hunter education in the US is that there is no demonstrated marksmanship requirement for getting a license. Most people fancy themselves to be much better marksmen than they actually are.
Poor shot placement due to excessive distance is the top cause of wounded and lost animals. Wounding an animal and thus sentencing it to a lingering and agonizing death is unacceptable. Any shot that isn't a dead-lock should not be taken...it's not like your family is going to starve if that deer doesn't come home with you.
People who make hunting videos don't show you the shots that went bad or the animals that were wounded and not recovered. 100 yard shot with pistol irons? That's simply not ethical, no matter who you are. Possible...sure, but "possible" and "responsible" are terms that share no common ground.
100% on point. It's not only no demonstrated marksmanship required for hunting. Down here in Florida, the statue for the concealed weapons license merely say the shooter has to handle and discharge their firearm safely. Courses have students shooting a .22 once into a bullet trap.
It could be that the requirements vary by county, I don't recall what I had to do 30+ years ago, but when my wife went a few years ago they had to use their weapon and get 5 shots on the target @ 20 yards.
Quote from: Muskrat on September 02 2020 08:55:31 AM MDT
It all depends on the shooter of course, but I think the maximum distance is the distance you can hit a 5" circle ten times out of ten, repeatedly. For most people shooting a handgun with irons from a rest, that's probably right around 20 yards. For most people shooting a scoped rifle from a field position, that's probably about 70 yards, and no more that twice that from a sturdy rest.
Poor shot placement due to excessive distance is the top cause of wounded and lost animals. Wounding an animal and thus sentencing it to a lingering and agonizing death is unacceptable. Any shot that isn't a dead-lock should not be taken...it's not like your family is going to starve if that deer doesn't come home with you.
"possible" and "responsible" are terms that share no common ground.
I agree with Muskrat on this one too, but I might give you a little more leeway on the size of the target he ref'd.
Since the kill zone of an average whitetail is about a 10" circle (size of a standard "paper plate" if you will), if you can keep 10 out of 10 rounds in @ an 7-8" circle, shooting in the same positions/conditions that you will be while hunting, IMHO I think that would still fall under responsible/ethical hunting.
I've actually hunted deer with large caliber handguns all my adult life. In fact, the very first handgun I ever bought when I became legally able to do so was a 7.5" bbl. Ruger Super Redhawk in .44Mag, just for these purposes.
Since I wanted to be ethical and get the max range possible out of that and other subsequent "hand cannons" that I purchased, I usually affixed the good old Leupold M8-2X on top of them to help in these efforts.
I have killed at least 8 deer with that Ruger at ranges from @40 feet to about 80 yards (all scoped), and I have never once had to fire a second shot on any of them. Of course, being the ethical hunter, I only take solid "kill shots" on deer in the first place, even when hunting with a scoped high power rifle. I also always use a "shooting stick" with handguns which I generally fashion out of a branch or sapling, and I chose one that has conveniently located "notches/branch offshoots" which are perfectly placed along the length which allows for the pistol to be "crotched" on the stick in both the standing and seated positions (in case I am still hunting).
When I stepped up to a Freedom Arms 7.5" .454Casull revolver, that increased my ethical range quite a bit, let alone, that gun is accurate as heck at 100yards, even with a simple 2X Leupold in the 3 ringed TSOB mount on it. Shooting 250g hard-cast LBT's at 1800fps, I have taken 1 shot kills on deer out to @125yards with that one (sitting down, gun in the "low crotch" of my shooting stick). Bullet still exited the opposite side very easily. Heart and lungs were toast.
I have been using a 10mm auto for hunting in the past couple of years in an attempt to bag one with those. I've used 5" 1911's and this year I will be using my RMR equipped XDm OSP. My handloads are 185g hard-cast LBT's running just a hair over 1300fps ave.
Due to me having the benefit of a bullet trap in the warehouse I own, I shoot handguns a lot (at least once a week I practice my defensive skills) and even with defensive handguns, I regularly shoot out to 25 yards offhand because not every active shooter scumbag we may run across will be close enough to smell.
My personal ethical limit for deer with my 10mm 1911's which have good/adjustable iron sites on them is about 40-50 yards with a rest. But even though I shoot a lot, that 50 yard shot would require a good 5-15 second "settling time' before I would depress the trigger to make an ethical kill.
With the RMR/XDm combo, I have the pistol zeroed at 75 yards. This keeps the round within 3" of line of sight all the way out to 100yards, and even at 100yards it would deliver near .357Mag at the muzzle energy.
No, I most likely would NOT take a 75+ yard shot with this gun, unless I was in one of the "deer hotel" blinds on the property that I hunt which are heated, they have comfortable office chairs with high back-rests to sit on and sandbag equipped counter top on 3 sides to shoot off of. Even then, if I didn't have the time and position to do it right, that deer will walk away unharmed, to hopefully circle back and give me a 25-50 yard poke at it.
The key is knowing your own limitations and having the ethics to let them walk when the kill is not 100% assured by having the tools and ability for proper shot placement. You obviously have the right tools and it sounds like you have the correct attitude too. Practice will tell you the real/most accurate answer...
Good Luck Ken!
Thanks 50BMG, am grateful for your time and thoughts put into this.
Ken
On an iron sighted 5" gun, I would say 50 yards is my max. With an 8.5 " Auto Mag, I can stretch it to 85 yards, no problem.
Tony