Was reading an interesting article on "fast reloads" their take on this was to drop your mag before it runs dry (a live rd still in the chamber) insert a new mag, and your ready to go, vs running it empty, dropping the mag, inserting a fresh one, and then manipulating the slide into the ready position...Thoughts
Running a gun dry in competition is considered taboo, but that has more to do with the speed advantage of reloading while moving between targets vs reloading when you could be shooting.
I think I reload faster after the gun runs dry, since it's easier to insert a full magazine with the slide locked back, thus requiring less weapon manipulation. I put extended slide releases on all my pistols and never use my off hand to rack the slide during a normal reload. Magazine insert to slide-down is close to instantaneous, and I can keep the gun arm extended and the weapon on target since the magazine doesn't need a hard slam to seat. This is also considered taboo by some weapon instructors. Some instructors don't think there should even be a slide release on a combat weapon so people are forced to use their off hand to rack the slide. But it works for me, and after several-hundred-thousand rounds I'm not going to change because fashionable opinion is against it. Wait a few years and opinion will be for it...
Tactical reload = Reloading with a fresh magazine when you have time.
Combat reload = Reloading from slide lock whether you have time or not.
The advantage of the tactical reload is you get to pick the timing. Additionally, assuming the gun doesn't have a magazine disconnect, you still have 1 shot on tap if your tactical situation goes sideways during the reload. The downside is you are leaving rounds behind if you drop the mag and leave it.
A combat reload can occur at a tactically convenient time if you are lucky. It can also occur at a terrible time. This is difficult to simulate in competition.
I favor training to tactical reloads.
Better yet, make your first rounds count and don't worry about reloading!
Honestly, I rarely cary a reload...and if I do it's generally not positioned where I can grab it quickly enough for it to be of any value if I needed it during a conflict. I'm comfortable with that. I'm no longer in uniform and I don't have sworn enemies stalking me...that I know of. I'm confident in the reliability of my weapons and ammo, and if 11~16 rounds won't get the job done then I've failed, and more ammo probably won't help.
More ammo is better, but realistically, anyone who's in a position where they think reloads are likely to be needed should also be wearing body armor...something that gets very old, very quickly.
Nice, Thanks!
You could always get an M&P. Slam a full mag home on slide lock and the slide will go forward on its own ;) I've surprised a couple Glock shooters at the dueling tree with that.
Hey Graybeard, I just tried your way with a M&P 9 and it worked like a charm. I have a bunch of the M&P's that should all work and I will try it when I get the time. It is cool though. I talked to a friend about this at breakfast and he was unaware of that with the M&P's. Thanks for the tip. Craig
That's a way cool option for that weapon
I don't know if it works with the single stack Shield. I've seen it work with every double stack M&P that I and my friends have. I'm not sure S&W markets it as a design feature, but it does work. The mag floorplate doesn't allow it to be over inserted.
thanks for that info! as a fairly new M&P owner I didn't realize that. I have had the slide go forward when slamming in a fresh mag. but I thought it was because my police trade in M&P had worn parts. I am relieved and will use that advantage in my training. 8)
So...while I can see the gimmick factor, I'm not sure I see any real advantage to that peculiarity. Sort of seems like a design defect, actually.
If there's a difference in the recovery time between having the slide come forward on a magazine SLAM insert, and having the slide come forward with the intentional tripping of a slide release after a normal insert, I doubt it actually comes out in favor of the slam-insert.
From a practical perspective, If the slam-insert slide-release doesn't work when you expected it to work you're (way) behind the curve...and if slam-inserts were actually faster than intentional slide releases, then weapons would be engineered to automatically drop the slide when a loaded mag is inserted. They're not. Guessing there's a reason?
If you want to time your reload speeds then shoot against a timer by going to a practical shooting competition. I've been to a...er, couple, and relying on the slide dropping with a hard magazine insert is not SOP...pretty sure it's not even in the consciousness of any of the shooters. And believe me, if any of the shooters who pay money to chase the clock though that sticking a emu feather up their...er...person would result in a fractionally better time, they'd do it.
Well let me add to the confusion. I dug out my S&W M&P's and tried them all. I have a 22, 40 cal, and a 9mm. I even have the owners manual for the 40 that is the same for all the M&P's. As reported earlier the 9 mm does load on mag insert very well. The 40 cal didn't load at all and the 22 loaded but not as smoothly as the 9 mm, and it took a couple of tries. All of these guns are police trade ins but the 22 and 9 seemed very new like 90 percent. The 40 was a Detroit Department trade in with a few miles on it but still very new looking. That's it but I will play some more with the 40 and manual states nothing about this feature at all. Craig
Update. The 40 cal does do it too!! Had some questionable reloads in there jamming on feed. All good now so all M&P's should do this operation I would think. Craig
Quote from: Muskrat on September 02 2020 08:46:54 PM MDT
So...while I can see the gimmick factor, I'm not sure I see any real advantage to that peculiarity. Sort of seems like a design defect, actually.
If there's a difference in the recovery time between having the slide come forward on a magazine SLAM insert, and having the slide come forward with the intentional tripping of a slide release after a normal insert, I doubt it actually comes out in favor of the slam-insert.
From a practical perspective, If the slam-insert slide-release doesn't work when you expected it to work you're (way) behind the curve...and if slam-inserts were actually faster than intentional slide releases, then weapons would be engineered to automatically drop the slide when a loaded mag is inserted. They're not. Guessing there's a reason?
If you want to time your reload speeds then shoot against a timer by going to a practical shooting competition. I've been to a...er, couple, and relying on the slide dropping with a hard magazine insert is not SOP...pretty sure it's not even in the consciousness of any of the shooters. And believe me, if any of the shooters who pay money to chase the clock though that sticking a emu feather up their...er...person would result in a fractionally better time, they'd do it.
The reason I included the winking smiley in my original post about this was I was under the impression the M&P's ability to do this was common knowledge. Pretty much everyone I know that has an M&P was aware of it.
I think you might have the wrong impression of what it takes to do this. It's not really a "slam reload" as much as a firm reload with the heel of your weak hand bumping the basepad. Probably no more, or not much more, force is involved than one would normally use in a competition setting to make sure a mag is fully seated.
The useful aspect of this is even a small amount of downward pressure on the slide stop will drop the slide on an M&P when inserting a mag firmly, every time. Much less pressure than it takes to release the slide stop on it's own. So riding the slide stop just a little drops the slide as the mag fully seats.
Why don't shooters use this in competition? They probably are taking advantage of the easier slide stop release as they have a finger or thumb on it before the mag is fully seated.
I've used the latter approach all the time in competition settings. I'm left handed and my thumb doesn't really reach the slide stop on the right side. I use my trigger finger to apply a little downforce on the left slide stop and insert mags firmly, no shifting of my grip, no need to slingshot the slide.
Is it faster? Once you wrap your head around how it works, probably. Whatever nanoseconds it takes for your brain to confirm the mag is seated, then tell your hand to push down the slide stop are removed.
It sounds like you don't have an M&P in your collection? If you have friends that do, give it a try. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Interesting...being a south-paw is a serious detriment for most slide releases! I'm sure the M&P mechanics are something you get used to and adapt to your advantage. I just don't see it as being a selling point, per se.
And no, I've never shot a M&P...though I entered a law enforcement raffle with a M&P of my choice as the prize, so no doubt I'll own one soon.
I'm the ultimate Glock dullard...I don't love them the way people love 1911's, and I don't think they're the hands-down best gun ever made. I don't even like the grip angle, but that's easy enough to change with epoxy and a file. But they're reliable, accurate, inexpensive, low maintenance, I've already got a plethora of holsters and magazines and mag carriers, and best of all...they come in 10mm. My heart has pitter-pattered over a lot of different guns, but in the end I just go back to boring old Glock...at least now they come in colors...
When I win that M&P I'll probably just sell it (after trying that slide release thing)...not because I think it's an inferior gun, but rather because I don't want another system to feed and care for. I passed up a very good deal on a 10mm Kimber for the same reason...more magazines, more holsters and magazine carriers...just too much hassle and expense.
Sometimes I actually miss the days when I had two rifles, two handguns and two shotguns, but I digress.
Good luck with that raffle :) But under no circumstances should you shoot or handle that M&P! I take back my previous suggestion. The grip angle and overall improved ergonomics could ruin your appreciation of Glocks :)) Don't do it to yourself!