Guys, I am NEW to this forum (loving it so far) - I am OLD to guns.... I have a vintage 1994 EAA .45 cal steel Witness. (rather interesting name choice for any number of reasons...).
An under-rated gun: Interesting look; no frills on features; so reliable its almost boring; bought it new and never modified it; fits my big hands very well; reasonably priced at the time; shot it a lot when I first got it but soon settled into 1911's when shooting .45. In recent years 10mm (one centimeter?) has become my favorite round. I see now that EAA is making a variety excellent 10mm's.
I know there are conversion kits for other EAA Witness guns in other calibers. Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit for this gun to allow it to fire 10mm?
They're out there. There's one on Gunbroker for $650. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868094430
And this price is the rub.. You can get a complete gun for about $250 less.
Sqlbullet, thank you. looks like they sell the barrel with the slide and spring. This does make sense since the slide and spring need to fit. but this is Bit more than I am wiling to pay. thanks
Greybeard,
thank you. I see now that the slide, spring, guide rod and barrel are all sold as a complete kit....for a lot of money!
would have been nice but thanks nevertheless.
I got spoiled by Glock and H&K drop in conversion barrels!
You can pick up a barrel only for $131 from EAA's website. My experience is dropping a 38 Super barrel in a 10mm Elite Match, and that worked 100% with a 38 super mag.
I don't know if the 45 ACP extractor will grab the 10mm rim.
SqlBullet, Thank you. I was not sure the barrel would fit properly within the original slide. Your experience is informative.
Here you go .... $413.00+shipping for a Standard Upper from EAA:
https://eaacorp.com/store/shop-full-width/parts/conversion-kit/10mm-standard-conversion-kit-blue-300038/
The Compact Upper for the same price:
https://eaacorp.com/store/shop-full-width/parts/conversion-kit/45acp-conversion-kit-compact-wonder-303007/
All you'll need is a Magazine:
https://www.cdnnsports.com/witness-10mm-15-all-full.html#.XrtZO0RKi00
DenStinett, Thank you for your help on this!
You bet
Hope you get'er set-up the way you want
I put this together:
(https://i.imgur.com/ztTBzxR.jpg)
A Full Size Witness, Large Frame, with a 10mm Compact Upper (a Semi Compact, my DTDC)
A 10mm Longslide and the Large Frame .22lr Conversion
Not a single matching Serial Number among them !
I've done a pile of barrel/slide swaps on Witness pistols.
In my experience when you put a 10mm barrel in a Witness 45 slide it works most of the time, but you really need a 10mm extractor installed for it to be completely reliable.
However, the good new is that the 10mm extractor will work fine when you put your 45 barrel back in it.
Keep in mind, that is just my personal experience, yours may be different.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
DenStinett,
Thanks for the photo! Nice interchangeability (if that is a word). Those options give me hope! Many rounds through each configuration? Reliable?
Looks like something you have fun with!
I have written to EAA with my concern about the age of my gun (bought in early 1994 so manufactured in 1992? 1993?) and compatibility with a current conversion barrel/kit.
Have a good weekend.
Tony Rumore, Thanks for that detail. I would love to do a conversion barrel only and avoid buying the whole slide spring assembly so your experience helps if I go barrel only.
As SqBullet pointed out buying the whole slide assembly aint cheap. But it would solve the extractor compatibility issue.
Im not in a rush on this project. Will gather as much info as possible. You helped so thank you!
Taylor3,
There are 8 basic Witness frames as follows:
Large Steel
Large Polymer
Small Steel
Small Polymer
And then Compact versions of those four above. I own them all and frequently swap them all around.
(https://i.imgur.com/fQcXygB.jpg?1)
Tony Rumore,
You are a Witness PhD!
Thank you.
here is what I got back when I emailed EAA asking whether the conversion kit for .45 to 10mm would work (I identified the product number that Den Stinett pointed me to) (thanks again Den Stinett) :
Will work on the frame , the conversion kits require to be fit to the frame by a Gunsmith at first but this is the correct kit .
Thank You
Kristy
EAA CORP
800-536-4442 ext 208
321-639-7006 (fax)
while we are talking about Witness barrel swaps, will a 6' Witness hunter 10mm barrel work in a 10mm Witness Steel?
You can install a 6" Witness Hunter barrel in a 4.75" or 4.50" slide, no problem provided you have a Large frame....polymer or steel.
You can even put the Hunter barrel in a Large Frame Compact as well. Shown below is a 6" 10mm barrel in gun that was originally a 40SW Large frame steel compact.
Tony
(https://i.imgur.com/qkgPK45.jpg?1)
Taylor,
Chances are the slide you buy will fit right on your frame with no gunsmithing required. I would say about 80% of the time, no work is needed.
If so, it will only be minor lapping of the rails to get it to work.
Tony
While we're on the topic, it can be difficult to identify a small versus large frame Witness when viewing pics on GunBroker and such. Obviously, if it's a 10mm, 38 Super, or 45 ACP, it's going to be a large frame gun, but if it's 40 S&W or 9mm it could be either. The easiest way to quickly ID the frame size is to look at the barrel in the ejection port of the slide. On a large frame gun, you will see the barrel's rear locking lug cut. On a small frame, you will not. First pic is a pair of Compact Steel frame guns in 9mm/40SW. Second pic is pointing out the large frame barrel detail.
Tony
(https://i.imgur.com/vRDUdaM.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/UqxSizN.jpg?1)
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 16 2020 03:26:37 PM MDT
Taylor,
Chances are the slide you buy will fit right on your frame with no gunsmithing required. I would say about 80% of the time, no work is needed.
If so, it will only be minor lapping of the rails to get it to work.
Tony
That is all I needed to do, to fit my Slides to my Frame
I stoned the Rails until the Slide would slip back and forth, over the Frame's Rails, under its own weight only
The Barrel should drop right into the Frame, just as it comes and it will already be fit to the Slide
REMEMBER:
Always work the Slide, never the Frame
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 16 2020 03:17:37 PM MDT
You can install a 6" Witness Hunter barrel in a 4.75" or 4.50" slide, no problem provided you have a Large frame....polymer or steel.
You can even put the Hunter barrel in a Large Frame Compact as well. Shown below is a 6" 10mm barrel in gun that was originally a 40SW Large frame steel compact.
Tony
(https://i.imgur.com/qkgPK45.jpg?1)
thanks Tony!
Tony Rumore, Den Stenitt and Blaster,
thank you for your detailed info.
I couldn't stand it! I just ordered a 6' barrel for my Witness steel! ;D
I want a commission from EAA for Blaster's purchase!
:)) :)) :)) :)) :))
well the 6" barrel came today. I installed it in my Witness full size steel and it wouldn't work! :'( >:( it seemed to fit but when the slide stop is installed, the slide stays out off battery. the slide overhangs the rear of the frame by about 1/4" and will not slide either direction. on closer inspection, the barrel link & feed ramp are shaped slightly different from the original barrel's. I don't know if something has changed in the design and the barrels are no longer interchangeable (my pistol is only 3-4 years old) but I now have a $200. paperweight. :-[ I will call EAA on Monday but I doubt they will do a refund on a barrel. anyone need a 6' Witness barrel? special deal today. :(
Blaster,
Ouch. Sorry you had that experience and may have lost money. Any remote possibility a smith could make some modifications?
Conversions are so easy with Glocks I have gotten spoiled.
In the meantime I will forgo my EAA commission.
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 15 2020 10:17:26 AM MDT
Taylor3,
There are 8 basic Witness frames as follows:
Large Steel
Large Polymer
Small Steel
Small Polymer
And then Compact versions of those four above. I own them all and frequently swap them all around.
(https://i.imgur.com/fQcXygB.jpg?1)
But do you have the Super Cool 9x25 6" barrel :)
Quote from: Intercooler on May 23 2020 06:10:22 PM MDT
But do you have the Super Cool 9x25 6" barrel :)
Of course I have one! It's currently resting in my Hunter model.
Tony
I have four witness pistols, all large frame steel and one hard chromed .40 "Stock" conversion kit...
Tanfoglio Witness compact (wonder finish) 10MM
Tanfoglio Witness Match (chrome frame /blue upper) 9MM
Tanfoglio Witness Limited Pro (chrome/chrome) .38 super
Tanfoglio Witness Limited Custom (chrome/chrome) 40 S&W
The chromed 40 conversion kit dropped right on the compact, but required my fitting it to the Limited pro and after fitting it to the Lim Pro it's still too tight to fit the match.
The chromed 40 conversion kit dropped right on the compact, but required my fitting it to the Limited pro and after fitting it to
the Lim Pro it's still too tight to fit the match.
The 9mm blued match upper fits the Lim pro frame.
The Lim pro .38 chrome super upper does not fit the match frame.
The Lim pro .38 chrome super upper does fit the Limited Custom frame.
The Limited custom .40 upper does not fit the Match.
The Limited custom .40 upper does fit the Lim pro.
I haven't tried any further swapping anything onto the compact or Limited custom but I am looking for a .40 barrel or complete .40 slide for the compact and I have not tried fitting other barrels to frames that do not fit because at this point I have every combination i need working except for a compact .40 slide on my compact 10mm.
My experience and others who tried to help me with fitting advice (suggestions from diamond files, stones, J-B Non Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound to diamond lapping paste) I had not encountered anyone trying to fit chrome slide to chrome frame... it's pretty hard stuff! I wound up using thinned diamond paste. Whatever you get if you need info on fitting them feel free to PM me for help.
Hey Tony,
I have a line on a .40 large frame full size Witness P slide kit but have hesitated because EAA would / could not verify that it's possible to fit. I take it you have found that large frame polymer upper to steel large frame are compatible?
Thanks,
Gary
Gnappi,
Thanks.
Quote from: Taylor3 on May 23 2020 01:10:21 PM MDT
Blaster,
Ouch. Sorry you had that experience and may have lost money. Any remote possibility a smith could make some modifications?
Conversions are so easy with Glocks I have gotten spoiled.
In the meantime I will forgo my EAA commission.
its been a week or two but I contacted EAA. they told me to send it back. I asked if there was a different barrel that would fit. they ended up refunding my money on the barrel so I guess there isn't.
at least you got honorable customer service.
EAA has gotten better with their customer service. the last few times I've dealt with them have been o.k.
Yeah, I'm thinking that between all of the negative comments on the web, CZ kicking their butts, the emergence of the IFG (Italian Firearms Group) and a REALLY crappy new website has had them doing some soul searching. Every call and Email to them in 2020 has been positive.
Now if they can get a better handle on spare and option part supply, maybe they'll get a following they SHOULD have had all along. I've been very happy with the several Witness pistols I acquired since the early 90's. To tell the truth, at this point in time no other brand is even a blip on my RADAR screen for purchases any more. I guess that makes me a Tanfoglio fanboy? :-)
Quote from: blaster on June 18 2020 04:01:03 PM MDT
its been a week or two but I contacted EAA. they told me to send it back. I asked if there was a different barrel that would fit. they ended up refunding my money on the barrel so I guess there isn't.
Hang on... You bought a 6" 10mm barrel that doesn't fit your 10mm slide/frame?
Not possible.
You received a SMALL frame barrel and EAA never made a 10mm (or .38 super) in a small frame AFAIK! Is it possible you received a .40 barrel that was marked 10mm?
I bought a .40 complete upper for a small frame planning on a small frame build from IFG. For grins I tried it on my 10mm compact and it had the same issue you found with the 6" bbl you received.
Anyway, I genned up this image which details all of the differences between the small and large frame pistols.
NOTE: this does NOT have coned barrel measurements (.725") as they were only made for large frame witness pistols
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1p2vPV7/eaa-witness-tanfoglio-small-large-frame-differences.jpg)