will Smith & Wesson ever jump on the band wagon and make the M&P in 10mm? they were pioneers with the 10mm, their 1006 is still highly regarded. I have an M&P .40 S&W and it is one of the pistols that I shoot the best. I just wish it were a 10mm!
has anyone even heard of S&W making another 10mm pistol?
Quote from: blaster on March 29 2020 09:18:30 PM MDT
will Smith & Wesson ever jump on the band wagon and make the M&P in 10mm? they were pioneers with the 10mm, their 1006 is still highly regarded. I have an M&P .40 S&W and it is one of the pistols that I shoot the best. I just wish it were a 10mm!
has anyone even heard of S&W making another 10mm pistol?
I would like one to go with my Sig P220. But I've heard rumors we will see a P320 in 10mm sooner than later.
I brought this up awhile ago. Some of the other members chimed in that they were pestering S&W about making a 10mm M&P, as well. After sending them several emails that all received basically an auto reply, it seems that S&W isn't all that interested in customer feedback on this issue.
Other than the 1000 series and the 610, I don't believe S&W has made any other 10mms. I've never seen one of their 1911s in 10mm.
Keep in mind they also created the 40S&W as a competitor and successor to the 10mm.
But we can hope.
Quote from: sqlbullet on March 30 2020 10:02:00 AM MDT
Keep in mind they also created the 40S&W as a competitor and successor to the 10mm.
But we can hope.
I've wondered about this, too. Perhaps a cut off your nose to spite your face situation? .40s seem to be fading in popularity and 10s have been on the rise.
I really don't think it would be much in the way of altering the M&P .45 to make it happen.
Even as I wrote it I remembered they have the 610...
The guys over at the S&W Forum have been on Smith for two years and have all but gave up.
Smith has shown no interest in the 10 for their M&P line.
what a pity. :'( thanks for the replies guys. I remember hearing about people calling S&W in the past. I guess I was hoping for some new good news. ::) too bad.
I also believe it would be easy for them to just modify the .45 M&P.
Quote from: BEEMER! on March 30 2020 12:49:12 PM MDT
The guys over at the S&W Forum have been on Smith for two years and have all but gave up.
Smith has shown no interest in the 10 for their M&P line.
Bob, I bust Smith & Wesson's chops every time they post on FaceBook, asking about the M&P chambered in 10mm. ???
I know it is on deaf ears but it does also allow others to also tag on to the post. 8)
S&W will not step out of that comfort zone to satisfy the needs of the true 10mm guys looking for this M&P 10mm. >:(
Those who know the S&W10xx series pistols knew the robust tanks they were. ;D
Some day maybe! ::) ::) ::)
If the XDM 10mm didn't get them to move on an MP 10mm, they likely never will.
Smith isn't interested in doing anything that is the slightest risk or unique. They only did the 610 cause they kept seeing the insane prices original 610s were commanding.
I think they also kinda got more afraid of stepping out of their comfort zone after they released that 22 pistol that requires an allen key to take down and ruger within weeks responded with the Mark IV that requires no tools to take down and is way easier than the Mark III. Smith kinda got their own butt handed to themselves with that and they really haven't taken a risk that I am aware of since then.
All that said, I love my XDM, but I love my MP45C better. I'd buy an MP 10mm in a heartbeat. The only thing higher on my wish list would be a Phoenix (Sphinx founders) in 10mm.
Quote from: Overkill338 on March 30 2020 12:54:59 AM MDT
Quote from: blaster on March 29 2020 09:18:30 PM MDT
will Smith & Wesson ever jump on the band wagon and make the M&P in 10mm? they were pioneers with the 10mm, their 1006 is still highly regarded. I have an M&P .40 S&W and it is one of the pistols that I shoot the best. I just wish it were a 10mm!
has anyone even heard of S&W making another 10mm pistol?
I would like one to go with my Sig P220. But I've heard rumors we will see a P320 in 10mm sooner than later.
I'd be all for a P320 in 10mm. Especially a P320 X-Compact and an X5 Legion.
I would be all over a P320 and an M&P in 10mm!!
Just remember any 320 10mm will be on a .45 frame. .45 FCU not the other 320 FCU
It's the OAL of the 10mm
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S&W is a great American manufacturer. The S&W 1911 chambered in the 10MM would sell. They seemed to be resisting the 10 ? Here in the Rocky Mtns. the 10MM is selling better than any other caliber.
Now everyone needs to contact S & W until they say, ok fine, we will offer one in 10mm 😀
Ken
Somebody in S&W management doesn't want to hear it. It appears it goes back to the effort they put into the 10mm and the 10xx handguns with the FBI. Maybe He lost face when they had to create the .40 S&W. I was told 1-2 years ago that the reps had taken this message back from the S&W dealers that they wanted a 10mm M&P pistol.
They where told to shut up about it if the wanted to keep their jobs.
Typical response unfortunately
Ken
I still can't understand it. I imagine it would not be hard to do at all on an existing .45 frame. its not like they would have to design it from the ground up. why would they not want to make $? ::)
The topic certainly comes up from time to time, for sure. I imagine interests among us vary a lot--I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in any single stack or 1911 offering, I don't think, but if they could do an M&P 2.0 compact in 10, I'd buy one as soon as possible. I don't know what the big deal is for them...they can produce those monster wheelguns that must cost a fortune to manufacture--that 5 people want--but not an M&P? Seems like an attitude problem to me, not a manufacturing/marketing one :D
Quote from: Bongo Boy on June 13 2020 08:46:51 PM MDT
The topic certainly comes up from time to time, for sure. I imagine interests among us vary a lot--I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in any single stack or 1911 offering, I don't think, but if they could do an M&P 2.0 compact in 10, I'd buy one as soon as possible. I don't know what the big deal is for them...they can produce those monster wheelguns that must cost a fortune to manufacture--that 5 people want--but not an M&P? Seems like an attitude problem to me, not a manufacturing/marketing one :D
I would agree. Last year a 5 shot .44mag was introduced that was marginally smaller than their 6 shot offerings, as a hunter/backpacker bear gun. Who's going to ditch their 6 shot .44 mag for one of those? The engineering/parts changes to make that happen for very limited sales make no sense.
S&W ditched the 357sig in the 9/40 sized guns over an alleged premature wear issue. A little research shows that may have been more politically motivated by police departments than an actual problem. If the smaller frame/slide could handle .357sig, why wouldn't the .45 version handle 10mm? The XDM made that transition with no apparent failures so far and the rear rails are polymer!
Why they can't start with an M&P .45, fab up a barrel and some mags, beef up the springs a little, and get to testing is beyond me. Glock and Springfield are eating their lunch.
I'd totally buy one 😀
There you go being logical.
I see Sig doing a 10mm 320 before S&W does a 10mm M&P.
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Quote from: sstewart on June 14 2020 01:14:33 PM MDT
There you go being logical.
I see Sig doing a 10mm 320 before S&W does a 10mm M&P.
Yeah I'd have to go with that prediction, too. The situation isn't a dire one, though--I find I now have far more 10mm shooting options than I can find time to shoot (or to handload), so at this point I sure can't complain. I really could use a compact double stack alternative to the G29, though, and I think my 10mm needs would be complete.
What am I missing? The modular 320 series is based around a max COAL of 1.169". 10mm won't fit without a complete re-design, which would result in a new model designation using Sig's typical practice.
While I agree that Sig is more likely to come out with a new modular "large" frame to support 45 ACP and 10mm than S&W is to add 10mm to the M&P line, I don't see either as likely.
They have a .45 frame that's larger. Technically out of production. Sig's been focused on 9mm because of military contracts but the platform supports it.
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I own a .45 320 compact carry
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That is what I was missing. Thanks!
I'm really glad they did. I really enjoy my recently acquired M610.
Quote from: Bruno747 on April 05 2020 08:34:15 PM MDT
Smith isn't interested in doing anything that is the slightest risk or unique. They only did the 610 cause they kept seeing the insane prices original 610s were commanding.
I just KNEW someone with facts would obliterate my dreams! I guess I'll have to settle for the XDM.
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 14 2020 09:28:53 PM MDT
What am I missing? The modular 320 series is based around a max COAL of 1.169". 10mm won't fit without a complete re-design, which would result in a new model designation using Sig's typical practice.
While I agree that Sig is more likely to come out with a new modular "large" frame to support 45 ACP and 10mm than S&W is to add 10mm to the M&P line, I don't see either as likely.
Quote from: sstewart on May 06 2020 02:48:38 PM MDT
Somebody in S&W management doesn't want to hear it. It appears it goes back to the effort they put into the 10mm and the 10xx handguns with the FBI. Maybe He lost face when they had to create the .40 S&W. I was told 1-2 years ago that the reps had taken this message back from the S&W dealers that they wanted a 10mm M&P pistol.
They where told to shut up about it if the wanted to keep their jobs.
Not to start a 9mm vs. 4x caliber bullets... If I remember my history correctly, S&W did not HAVE to create the .40.
What I was told happened was when the "Fed lite" 10mm at something like 900-950 fps with sub 200 grain bullets was seen to meet the FBI requirements, S&W saw an opportunity to shorten the case and used a double stack 9mm type frame with circumference dimensions no larger that the Delta or 10mm, and the .40 became the darling of LEO's. That is until new "improved" 9mm loadings with higher capacities came about. It also did not help that a polymer gun was being artfully marketed to the LEO market. Then the 40 got the moniker 40 Short and weak.
I'll say this about the .40. At my last USPSA match long ago it was a windy day and the poppers kept being blown down. The range guys kept moving the adjustment screw so the poppers leaned more into the wind. When the poppers stopped falling from the wind, not one 9mm could knock the poppers down without 2,3 or 4 rapid shots to the popper where .40's and .45's did not have an issue with a knockdown, one shot, popper down.
At bowling pins I saw less dead wood from .40's, .45's and .357 mags than 9's.
Short and weak? Not in my experience. If it doesn't start with a 4, I'm not interested.
What read somewhere from somebody, that may or may not be true, is that the return to 9mm from 40SW in law enforcement is simply a matter of cost. Again, this may be conjecture—as I doubt too many folks know the facts on the topic across the spectrum of 'law enforcement', and I doubt the reasons for the move are the same for all cities/departments.
The assertion does make sense, to me, as I can see cost is far more important than any arguments regarding effectiveness. But, given no military and police units will EVER be buying 10mm, Smith may find it contradictory to their marketing strategy to offer an "M&P" in a caliber that will never be sold to m&p. That's fine, call it something else, or just be okay with selling more M&P products to civilians than you sell to M&P.
I did say I've got no shortage of 10mm pistols. But, I DO have a shortage of them that feel like they were made for any human hand. An M&P would fill that void.
Morning Bongo Boy, as for the switch back to 9's, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with follow up shots, as well as overall controllably, and not so much to do with cost
Thanks
Ken
There are several factors for law enforcement to switch back to 9mm:
Less likely collateral damage or injury should innocent people be hit or struck by stray shots. That would include other officers working in close quarters.
Ammunition cost for training and actual carry supplies. Uniformity of ammo is also factored into this where ammo could be shared across agencies.
9mm ammo has under gone some changes and testing protocol for better performance for the standards.
Firearms & Ammo are lighter & smaller, so that adds to carrying more ammo and firearm capacity with less weight to the officers.
Law enforcement has the duty to bring the perps to justice and not kill them.
Law enforcement agencies have the benefit of having multiple officers to bring the perps down, whereas the average person doesn't have the luxury at the time of protective measures!
As much as we would like to see a new offering from S&W chambered in 10mm, I do NOT see them stepping out of there comfort zone to do so!
This post is a revival of an old topic. That said, S&W refuses to offer a 10MM caliber handgun. S&W has done this in the past. The S&W .45/.45 Schofield was a short version of the .45 Colt. The S&W .45 would not survive long after 1875. S&W would in time wake up and chamber a .45 Colt revolver. I expect they will awaken to a 10MM caliber firearm once more. ???
XDM is the one Smith should have made.
For all those talking followup ability, I don't notice much difference in recoil between my Glock 20 and my M&P 2.0 9mm. That said, I notice most 10mms are much heavier than the G20...is a build like the G20 not suitable?
Ammo cost: on most sites today, 10mm is comparable to 9mm.
That's one of the many reasons I like my RIA and Sig P220, as these weighty weapons soak up a lot of the recoil
If S&W is holding off to make a semi auto 10mm because they currently offer 40SW, then they are missing the point. 10mm is increasing on popularity while demand for 40SW during these crazy times has remained high. Seems to me they can't lose.
I would vote for M&P CORE 10mm as companion to my 610. In suggest they name it 1006C. Double stack DA/SA.
My 2 cents.
Absolutely
I troll SW on Twitter whenever they post anything, basically asking them for a 10mm semiauto. It would sell so well; people want more striker fire 10mm choices. Not everyone is into 1911.
Absolutely 😀
so today on Twitter, S&W posts their stupid 'Wheelgun Wednesday' with an 8 round (& probably 8 pound) revolver. Again, I trolled their tweet about a 10mm semi, that prob would sell better anyway.
Totally would, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat
here's some serious hope that Smith & Wesson may yet give us 10mm: https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/old-handgun-cartridges/#h-5-the-40-s-w-the-fbi-kills-its-own-baby
ps: I don't know how to use the hyperlink feature here - ie have text displayed with the blue and underline which clicking will take you to a certain site
Guys, see this Twitter post SW made? https://twitter.com/Smith_WessonInc/status/1394395805608554497
maybe it's a good place to prod them on a 10mm version...
S & W offered a 10mm, they would sell a ton of them, you would think they could see that
Have we not started talking about the M&P 10mm Display stands that have started hitting dealers?
:)
What is this?
Oh What the hell is that? S&W has been begged for a 10mm M&P for a long time! By myself and others... ::)
Quote from: BEEMER! on November 13 2021 12:00:21 PM MST
What is this?
yes that... ;)
I posted up a picture of a different one on the Smith forum.
Smith & Wesson has put a 10mm hint out on their Facebook site today!
We will have to see what they might be up too!
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258311229_10159921322438960_5312156017543341797_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=H-pJ1mlxmBkAX-Ee9tk&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=3b8940ee543eb117da6e6de362d4c37c&oe=61979B96)
Real Guns just did a write up on one.
https://www.realguns.com/articles/2069.htm
https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp
With or without thumb safety, 4" or 4.6" barrels, all optics ready. Glock and Springfield have some competition.
Edit to add:
Nothing on Gunbroker yet.
Also, 15+1 magazine capacity. The 4" would fit nicely between a Glock 29 and a Glock 20 in size, and offer a thumb safety option for appendix carry guys.
Hopefully this will become the most common polymer 10mm and unseat Glock. Ergos will be so much better. Can't wait till all the bugs are worked out and prices are more sane.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/11/16/new-10mm-smith-wesson-mp-2-0/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxdP7z_LW2o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxdP7z_LW2o)
That youtube video already has 40k+ views. Good luck finding one of these pistols on the first or second run.
We shall see. I just called my local dealer and told him to get me a 4 inch no safety version and a couple extra mags.
I was able to pre-order a 4.00 .. Can?t wait to get it!
sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com
I am interested for sure!!
Ill wait for some
More reviews.
Quote from: B320 on November 16 2021 11:30:18 AM MST
That youtube video already has 40k+ views. Good luck finding one of these pistols on the first or second run.
Given some of the past issues with the M&P line I wouldn?t want the first ones out of the gate.
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Too little, too late. Have shot and/or owned Gluck, 1911 and XDM 10mms and found the XDM-10 is nearly perfect for me. A year or two ago maybe, but I have no need for the M&P anymore. What's my perfect 10mm you ask? Why it's a S&W, of course! The M610.
Quote from: Mike D on November 16 2021 06:14:00 PM MST
Quote from: B320 on November 16 2021 11:30:18 AM MST
That youtube video already has 40k+ views. Good luck finding one of these pistols on the first or second run.
Given some of the past issues with the M&P line I wouldn?t want the first ones out of the gate.
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Yup - Makes sense to let others be the beta testers. The design and implementation look promising and hopefully won't require any tweaking since its based on an already-refined platform.
Quote from: B320 on November 17 2021 07:12:50 AM MST
Quote from: Mike D on November 16 2021 06:14:00 PM MST
Quote from: B320 on November 16 2021 11:30:18 AM MST
That youtube video already has 40k+ views. Good luck finding one of these pistols on the first or second run.
Given some of the past issues with the M&P line I wouldn?t want the first ones out of the gate.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Yup - Makes sense to let others be the beta testers. The design and implementation look promising and hopefully won't require any tweaking since its based on an already-refined platform.
Same here. Let it percolate, wait for any recalls to happen, get in on the 3rd or 4th wave.
Quote from: Lettusbee67 on November 17 2021 11:08:13 AM MST
Quote from: B320 on November 17 2021 07:12:50 AM MST
Quote from: Mike D on November 16 2021 06:14:00 PM MST
Quote from: B320 on November 16 2021 11:30:18 AM MST
That youtube video already has 40k+ views. Good luck finding one of these pistols on the first or second run.
Given some of the past issues with the M&P line I wouldn?t want the first ones out of the gate.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Yup - Makes sense to let others be the beta testers. The design and implementation look promising and hopefully won't require any tweaking since its based on an already-refined platform.
Same here. Let it percolate, wait for any recalls to happen, get in on the 3rd or 4th wave.
Maybe even find one second hand when people realize that its expensive to shoot factory ammo.
They are already on the 3rd gen platform of the M&P line. The past issues of the V1 M&P's wouldn't discourage me if I were in the market.
That said, I do think they have a challenge as they are very late to the party. But I said the same thing about the XDm.
I do think the 4" hits a sweet spot no one else fills with a 10mm.
Quote from: sqlbullet on November 18 2021 07:14:43 AM MST
They are already on the 3rd gen platform of the M&P line. The past issues of the V1 M&P's wouldn't discourage me if I were in the market.
That said, I do think they have a challenge as they are very late to the party. But I said the same thing about the XDm.
I do think the 4" hits a sweet spot no one else fills with a 10mm.
I would agree re the current generation of M&Ps and the 4" version. I could definitely see myself buying the 4" version and installing low profile night sights, preferably adjustable.
I was able to get my hands on one today and had a limited shooting session. Ammo and time were both in short supply.
That said, if feels good, shoots good, and the brass is not launched into low orbit. I like it and have an order in for one.
I find it too funny that S&W finds now's the time to drop a 10mm! :o
I suppose ammo is kinda, sorta, returning to at least being on shelves.. Albeit at a much higher price point.
A lot more first time gun owners out there, the market was pretty hot.. Although it's starting to slow down.
Smith did post the industry's first Billion Dollar year, and decided to move to Tennessee :)
All of that aside.. Smith's presser seen here
https://www.smith-wesson.com/article/mp-10mm
someone wrote this:
"The average grain weight of a 9mm bullet is around 115 grains, and the average 10mm is around 180 grains. Making the 10mm bullet 63% heavier of a round over the 9mm, that one digit millimeter difference, is really the equivalent of 63% more mass.
Now, you might also be familiar with .45 ACP, a long-standing low velocity, high powered round. Surprisingly enough, the 10mm and the .45 look an awful lot alike when you put them side by side, they?ll pack a similar punch but perform in different ways. The muzzle velocity of .45 is 840 feet per second, versus the 10mm?s 1008 feet per second."
Whoever the hell wrote that should be fired! Maybe they're thinking of .40 Short & Weak.. Even a quick glance at this list of factory loads shows that the majority of real 10mm isn't 1008fps, especially @ 180gr.. What kind of watered down b.s. are they loading up?
http://ballistics101.com/10mm.php
Just poking fun :) I'm glad a there's another one to add to the fold. I'll pick one up once I get bored with the 9x25 I just built. Probably second hand from someone who was misinformed at a local gun store, bought it, shot it twice, and needs the money for something "more manageable" 8)
...wonder if S&W came out with a 10m now because of declining sales of the M&P line in .40 S&W....
Bob
YAAAASSSS
YES!
(https://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/13387-mp-OnWhite-Left-600x506.jpg)
I'm glad to see they put suppressor height sights and a optic mount on it. that way the irons can co witness with the dot sight. for a while, I had a Vortex Venom on my XDm 10mm. it was great in that my accuracy improved when shooting with it but I had problems acquiring the dot in fast situations. ie. I had a hog trot by my stand and before I could find the dot he was gone! :-[ I would have never used it for dangerous game or self defense. with co witnessing iron sights, I wouldn't have that problem. all the more reason I want one! :P
I'll look, but I'm inclined to keep my XDM 5.25. Polished bore and feed ramp are made for handloaders. All M&P so far feature duty grade bores designed for jacketed bullets, i.e. no polish. G20 does not have standard rifling.
Quote from: sqlbullet on November 18 2021 07:14:43 AM MST
I do think the 4" hits a sweet spot no one else fills with a 10mm.
The Glock 19 of the 10mm world.
They might be onto something with this concept.
Looks like that rail has a bit of the glock pignose going on.
I'm excited about this. As I understand, a 2.0 slide can work on a 1.0 frame if the slide stop is swapped over. MP 10c here I come. I have to try swapping the mag follower and slide into my 45c frame and mag.
Guess I'll also have yet another pistol I have to swap goofy sights out first thing just like the goofy ones on my xdm elite 10mm. Time to invest in a proper sight pusher.
I have now been ta three shops looking. Have t seen one yet. I wanna bring a 4" home.
Had a awesome time proving some 200g WFN loads yesterday.
CW
Personally I feel that they missed the mark with the sizes. 4.0 & 4.6? Those are too close for my taste.
I have a G29 and SA Elite 3.8"(10mm) and those work well for MY INTENDED use. For me, the short barrel should be short enough to make it easier to pack and or conceal. I carry mine for general offroad/back country travel. Either in my chest pak while dirt biking / snowmobiling, or a chest holster/belt holster when I hike or Jeep.
Yes ... size matters! lol
For me the 4.0 is my choice. As I also have the G29,20 & 40. My G20 wears a LW 5.5" ported barrel. The lack of support for barels in G29 keeps mine stock. So tbis will be nice balance between G29 and G20.
Probably be a carry piece over G29. The G29 is my winter carry.
I agree the 4.6 seem lo small a length over the 4. A 4&6 mighta been better. But time will tell.
I have shot all barrel Lengths and altho most say little is lost in the short G29. It is substantial. Up to near 200 fps with top loads. But always 100+ in my testing.
I'm curious...which do you favor?
Quote from: terdog on November 25 2021 11:52:08 AM MSTI have a G29 and SA Elite 3.8"(10mm) and those work well for MY INTENDED use. For me, the short barrel should be short enough to make it easier to pack and or conceal.