I own a Ruger 10mm 1911. I reload my own ammo and tried several bullet weights and vihtavouri powders. I have maxed the capacity of a 10mm casing and blew out the primers. I'm trying to get ring of fire like magnum calibers or just big flames. I was learned that slow powder and light bullet weight was the answer but i failed to find the perfect reload data. Anyone got any ideas?
If your blowing out primers , be careful before you go boom and damage your gun/hand/etc
If you are looking for the big flash, give Blue Dot a try : )
Ken
Could you share your actual load data? The statement 'maxed the capacity' sounds like a compressed charge, but VV doesn't list any compressed charges in 10mm auto.
That said, I would look to AA#9 max loads if muzzle flash was my goal. It is really just a touch too slow for 10mm.
QuoteI'm trying to get ring of fire like magnum calibers or just big flames.
QuoteIf your blowing out primers , be careful before you go boom and damage your gun/hand/etc
mmmmm... yeah I've got mixed feelings about this whole venture. Firearms are definitly fun but not toys. Maybe a toy cannon that fired wads would be a safer alternative to hot loads just for the sake of muzzle blast. Just my two, of course, you make your own calls.
Lorditet, Not sure why you are trying to accomplish the fire ring as most pistol powders are somewhat flash suppressed.
Now that being said we have noticed bright white flash from Alliant Power Pistol, Alliant Blue Dot tends to be less bright more to the yellowish orange flash.
Powders Like Accurate Arms / Accurate while they claim flash suppressed they exhibit and orange color.
What you are seeing with the heavy "Magnum Cartridges" is the powder gases are reigniting as the escape into more oxygenated air. They usually loaded with very dense powders, as the burn they consume their oxygen content in the powder, but as they burn the heat continues to produce high volumes of gas. Hodgdon's H-110/ W296 & Lil-Gun powders are main stays for many magnum cartridges and require very heavy crimps to allow their ignition which consumes most of their oxygen content but then when the extreme amounts of heated gases exit the barrel they tend to reignite in the oxygen rich air...
13,5 grain vv 3n38 with a 140 grain bullet if I rememeber it right
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Cant find Alliant powder in my country. Only vv,lovex and norma.
I once shoot a Coonan 357 and fell in love in the fire ring. No Coonan here so I bought a 10mm instead
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 05 2020 08:28:09 AM MST
Lorditet, Not sure why you are trying to accomplish the fire ring as most pistol powders are somewhat flash suppressed.
Now that being said we have noticed bright white flash from Alliant Power Pistol, Alliant Blue Dot tends to be less bright more to the yellowish orange flash.
Powders Like Accurate Arms / Accurate while they claim flash suppressed they exhibit and orange color.
What you are seeing with the heavy "Magnum Cartridges" is the powder gases are reigniting as the escape into more oxygenated air. They usually loaded with very dense powders, as the burn they consume their oxygen content in the powder, but as they burn the heat continues to produce high volumes of gas. Hodgdon's H-110/ W296 & Lil-Gun powders are main stays for many magnum cartridges and require very heavy crimps to allow their ignition which consumes most of their oxygen content but then when the extreme amounts of heated gases exit the barrel they tend to reignite in the oxygen rich air...
You sound like you know what you are talking about.
Can you help me a little bit more? "Dense" is slow burning powder or fast?
If I crimp harder its gonna be more fire?
Lorditet, These Dense slow burning powders are usually too slow for the 10mm and unburned powder just blows out the barrel.
Excessive crimping with 10mm is not good as the crimped area may get pushed pas the end of the chamber cut. That may not happen, but for some reason if it did the crimp being past the end of chamber cut can cause excessive pressures as it could not release the bullet. Heavy crimps can also lead to failure to feed if the case gets pushed down and outward exceeding the proper dimensions, that can also lead to loose bullet fit or disrupts bullet accuracy down range.
All that being said there are many who have had good fire balls using heavy doses of Blue Dot, given lighting conditions, whether your eyes are wide open for the shot, or if filming, what the timing of the shutter is at the time...therefore you may or may not see the flash.
Just be careful, blowing out primers sounds like you are nearing a potential bad bad bad problem
Ken
Still pictures of video but no good rings.
So a good fire ring is more or less impossible with 10mm?
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Sundown
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Quote from: Kenk on March 05 2020 11:28:14 AM MST
Just be careful, blowing out primers sounds like you are nearing a potential bad bad bad problem
Ken
I have a stronger recoilspring now, 24 I believe. I had original at first but that almost broke then Gun, had to slam it in the table to get in unstuck.
I now only loading 12 grain at most. 13.5 was just to test maximum.
The lack of the ring during the flash is likely the lack of gas volume being expelled vs. actual velocity attained of the expelled gases to roll up the rings...
Looking at the loads and cases you posted you are really pushing that powder beyond the safe limits...
All of the LOVEX powders are said to be somewhat flash suppressed...
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 05 2020 12:56:00 PM MST
The lack of the ring during the flash is likely the lack of gas volume being expelled vs. actual velocity attained of the expelled gases to roll up the rings...
Looking at the loads and cases you posted you are really pushing that powder beyond the safe limits...
All of the LOVEX powders are said to be somewhat flash suppressed...
This is the maxspeed on 140 grain of I remember it right. If i understand you right I need more air in the shells? Now i have almost none. 357 magnum get rings, is it much more volume in 357?
Would it help to convert my pistol to 9x25 dillon or is the magnum shells its all about?
Om not slow but english isnt my main language
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Quote from: Lorditet on March 06 2020 07:00:53 AM MST
This is the maxspeed on 140 grain of I remember it right. If i understand you right I need more air in the shells? Now i have almost none. 357 magnum get rings, is it much more volume in 357?
Would it help to convert my pistol to 9x25 dillon or is the magnum shells its all about?
Om not slow but english isnt my main language
I wasn't referring to there being AIR SPACE in the case...
The oxygen that gets used up is built into the chemistry of the smokeless powder, as the dense powder burns and consumes everything and uses up the oxygen also. Then the large volume of the hot gases jets out the barrel and mixes with the oxygen rich fresh air to ignite and give the flash you can see.
Have you tried the VV N105 powder for the 10mm as it is slower burning and denser powder than the VV 3n38?
Not sure if it will even get you the fire rings you are looking for, but you might give it a try...
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 06 2020 08:03:36 AM MST
Quote from: Lorditet on March 06 2020 07:00:53 AM MST
This is the maxspeed on 140 grain of I remember it right. If i understand you right I need more air in the shells? Now i have almost none. 357 magnum get rings, is it much more volume in 357?
Would it help to convert my pistol to 9x25 dillon or is the magnum shells its all about?
Om not slow but english isnt my main language
I wasn't referring to there being AIR SPACE in the case...
The oxygen that gets used up is built into the chemistry of the smokeless powder, as the dense powder burns and consumes everything and uses up the oxygen also. Then the large volume of the hot gases jets out the barrel and mixes with the oxygen rich fresh air to ignite and give the flash you can see.
Have you tried the VV N105 powder for the 10mm as it is slower burning and denser powder than the VV 3n38?
Not sure if it will even get you the fire rings you are looking for, but you might give it a try...
With N105 I get sparks for some reason. I attached a picture. I an really grateful for you knowledge. Maybe I should accept the facts and buy a 454 casull or something
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I think I have heard everything now. WOW! :D
Quote from: BEEMER! on March 06 2020 08:51:39 AM MST
I think I have heard everything now. WOW! :D
Being dumb or being brave is a thin line they say.
I have to ask, Do you have good health insurance?
I think your 10mm can give you flash but youre going to have to find different powder. Power Pistol or Blue Dot.
Quote from: rognp on March 06 2020 10:29:57 AM MST
I have to ask, Do you have good health insurance?
I think your 10mm can give you flash but youre going to have to find different powder. Power Pistol or Blue Dot.
Yes I actually have good insurance. But of course I dont want to get hurt. I thought about black powder but om scared that i get hurt.
Hard to get those powders here in scandinavia, US has strong export rules.
Want fire rings? Get you a 357 mag, H110 powder, and 110gr HP bullets. You can almost use the case as a dipper to load the powder as it will a compressed load. LOTS of muzzle flash. I have 2 others that will light up the night, an AMT Automag III 30 carbine pistol and the Thompson Center 10" 30-30. The 30 carbine is loaded with H110 and 110gr carbine bullets. Runs flames out about 10-12 feet. While that may sound impressive, it's a major pain when night hunting. The best is the Contender. I generally use it to clear the firing line of idiots when forced into using a public firing range. You don't want to have to stand any where near me unless you just like being slapped upside the head with a shovel. The load is 35gr H335 under a 110gr carbine bullet. You also don't want to shoot it in tall grass. The muzzle flash at night is blinding, and I mean blinding as in you can't see anything for several minutes. I liken it to an artillery round rather than anything that can be hand held. I would have to say it can't get any better or bigger and still still be hand held.
Quote from: Trapper6L on March 06 2020 12:50:10 PM MST
Want fire rings? Get you a 357 mag, H110 powder, and 110gr HP bullets. You can almost use the case as a dipper to load the powder as it will a compressed load. LOTS of muzzle flash. I have 2 others that will light up the night, an AMT Automag III 30 carbine pistol and the Thompson Center 10" 30-30. The 30 carbine is loaded with H110 and 110gr carbine bullets. Runs flames out about 10-12 feet. While that may sound impressive, it's a major pain when night hunting. The best is the Contender. I generally use it to clear the firing line of idiots when forced into using a public firing range. You don't want to have to stand any where near me unless you just like being slapped upside the head with a shovel. The load is 35gr H335 under a 110gr carbine bullet. You also don't want to shoot it in tall grass. The muzzle flash at night is blinding, and I mean blinding as in you can't see anything for several minutes. I liken it to an artillery round rather than anything that can be hand held. I would have to say it can't get any better or bigger and still still be hand held.
I envy you. H110 is hodgdon? H110 I can find here, is that the svets powder for my mission acording to you?
I would doubt that you could get enough H110/296 into a case to fire, most likely it would squib and maybe stick in the bore.
3F or 4F black powder will definitely give a ball of fire and sparks too. Compressed load under a maybe 150gr bullet. Then all you have to do is clean it all up afterward, including anything you touch.
😂😂😂
Lorditet, are you by the way the person who was on Glock Talk that went by Robert91922 ???
JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW if you attempt to use REAL BLACK POWDER, those loads need to have all air space occupied completely! If there is Air Space / VOID between the bullet and the powder it will explode instead of burn properly!
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 06 2020 05:44:02 PM MST
Lorditet, are you by the way the person who was on Glock Talk that went by Robert91922 ???
JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW if you attempt to use REAL BLACK POWDER, those loads need to have all air space occupied completely! If there is Air Space / VOID between the bullet and the powder it will explode instead of burn properly!
It would surely be funny of I was but no. Im just another stupid hillbilly with camopants and a broken chevy on the yard.
this thread is an injury waiting to happen IMO
I've got to say that fireball creation is the single strangest goal I've ever heard of for a shooter.
Absolutely a true fact 😀
Hold my beer, ya'lll watch this !
To each his own I guess, I prefer less flash when possible.
If you want more flash, try a ported muzzle brake, they seem to throw flames
I am way into full power 10mm loads such as Underwood's 135gr Nosler load, however I like sticking to mid level hand loads such as my favorite, 10.4gr's of Blue Dot under a 180gr XTP or HAP. I am looking at duplicating some of the hotter stuff, as I have realized between my anal reloading habits / weighing each load individually, I'm confident I can work these loads up to Underwood's validities without blowing anything up. As for an enormous ring of fire 😀, that's the least of my concerns
Ken
When I'm looking for a giant fireball or ring of fire, I shoot my 460. That's tough to beat for "wow" factor.