10mm-Auto

10mm Ammuntion => Reloading 10mm ammo => Topic started by: Star Child on February 12 2020 05:34:06 PM MST

Title: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 12 2020 05:34:06 PM MST
I have purchase some Underwood 180grn. Bonded (Gold Dot) ammunition.  I would like to replicate it with handloads.  What would you recommend?  I like BE-86 powder, and have some on hand.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Kenk on February 12 2020 06:14:23 PM MST
Evening Star Child,
According Alliant's load data, top end is 8.2 gr's of BE-86, getting you 1,256 FPS, with Underwood's getting 1,300. This isn't far off from UW, but I'm sure some of the others can get you closer. Lastly, BE-86 is some awesome powder as I'm sure you know!

Ken


10mm Auto   180 gr JHP   Federal   1.25   5   Fed 150   BE-86   8.2   1,256   


https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=180&shellid=30&bulletid=332
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: The_Shadow on February 12 2020 10:44:18 PM MST
Star Child see this link of recent UW ammo may help out
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-200gr-hornady-xtp-(redline-819)/msg85319/#msg85319 (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-200gr-hornady-xtp-(redline-819)/msg85319/#msg85319)

I loaded and tested 8.4 grains of BE-86 under the 200 grain Gold Dots @ 1237 fps
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 13 2020 06:03:22 AM MST
Here's the link to the 180s http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-180gr-bonded-jhp-(redline-819)/

Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: The_Shadow on February 13 2020 09:02:29 AM MST
Graybeard the reason I didn't link that one for Star Child is that UW was using LongShot and not BE-86 in that loading...
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 13 2020 11:18:56 AM MST
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 13 2020 09:02:29 AM MST
Graybeard the reason I didn't link that one for Star Child is that UW was using LongShot and not BE-86 in that loading...

I realize that. Just sharing some of your excellent work. Since he has the GD 180s, he might consider obtaining some LongShot. Easier workup since your data is available :)
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 13 2020 02:49:12 PM MST
Thanks for all the information.  How does Longshot compare with BE-86 ?  I know BE-86 is faster burning, The Hodgon website shows the 10mm 180grn. starting load as 8.5 gr. of Longshot at 1,221fps 31,000PSI and a maximum load of 9.5gr. at 1,287 fps. 34,600 psi.   Do y'all think Longshot might be a better powder for more velocity?  How does it meter? 
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 13 2020 03:56:35 PM MST
If you're chasing speed, I think LongShot is a better choice. I've pretty much replaced 800X with it for hot loads. 9.2 - 9.4grs with 180gr RMR fmj bullets was averaging 1320fps out of a 5" 1911. The extreme spread was only 31fps.

Those were loaded in a progressive press as I was looking for a fairly hot plinker load for my 10mm AR. It meters well enough that I was shooting for 9.3gr and the charges I pulled and weighed were only + or - .1gr and with a 31fps extreme spread, I was happily surprised.

I think Hodgdon's numbers are a bit low, or they used a really sloppy test barrel.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 13 2020 05:12:22 PM MST
It looks like by Shadows pull down of the Underwood 180 Gold Dot that the cartridge contains approx. 8.7gr. of Longshot.  I should be able to duplicate that round and be safe according to the Hodgon website reloading information.  It might be tough getting the same velocity of the Underwood round with BE-86.  Thanks everyone. 
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 14 2020 09:58:38 AM MST
I chronographed the Underwood 180gr. bonded bullet this morning.  The velocity was @ 1,217 fps.  I should be able to replicate this load with 8.4gr. of BE-86, which I have Chronographed @ 1,204 fps.  Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 14 2020 10:14:13 AM MST
What gun and barrel length are you using? Underwood lists 1300fps for their 180 bonded HP.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 14 2020 11:12:12 AM MST
Quote from: Graybeard on February 14 2020 10:14:13 AM MST
What gun and barrel length are you using? Underwood lists 1300fps for their 180 bonded HP.

I am using a stock Glock G20 gen4 with a 4.6" barrel.  It was about 36 degrees and I was using the Oehler proof chronograph (model 35P) with three Skyscreens III.  There was no indication of error, my chronograph is about 20 years old but seems to be working fine.  I heard that Underwood (internet rumor) is loading the 180gr. down for better performance.  On the Underwood box it did state 1300fps.

https://oehler-research.com
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Kenk on February 14 2020 01:01:24 PM MST
I received a few  boxes this week for UW, and also said 1,300 FPS
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 14 2020 01:07:26 PM MST
Underwood changed the stated velocity of their 180s from 1350 to 1300 awhile ago. I'm a little surprised they only came in at 1217 out of your G20. That's a little disappointing, although easy to replicate with BE-86. So I guess it's a win :)

Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 16 2020 01:25:31 PM MST
The Underwood ammo with a velocity at 1,217fps. is still a very potent round.  The bullet may even perform better at this velocity than at 1,300fps.?
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 16 2020 04:45:01 PM MST
I doubt most 2 and many 4 legged creatures would notice 83fps difference.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 20 2020 05:48:26 AM MST
Here is a video on some test of Underwood ammo.  Notice that his chronograph reading of the Underwood 10mm 180gr. bonded bullet average was 1,204 fps. (at point 1:40 in video)  Which was close to my reading of 1,217 fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN4thm4J6ks
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Graybeard on February 20 2020 08:41:27 AM MST
That's actually a little disappointing. Obviously with different guns and chronographs you would expect slightly different results. Your results and the video certainly make me believe the Underwood 180s aren't really up to speed. It might be close out of a longslide 1911, maybe.

Especially disappointing since I've run 180gr HPs, in a 5" 1911, at 1296fps with Power Pistol, and over 1300fps with LongShot and 800x. None of those showed signs of being over pressure other than very slightly flattened primers. For those that don't handload and expect that performance from Underwood, apparently they're not getting it.

Still a potent round, as you mentioned, but not the upper edge that Underwood built their reputation on.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: sqlbullet on February 20 2020 09:50:11 AM MST
The 200 grain 10mm also expanded less than spectacularly.  I wonder how much less it would have penetrated if it had expanded properly.

Other than a little disappointment at the velocities nothing of note here.  Higher SD bullets at similar velocities as their lower SD counterparts will penetrate further.
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: AlinMi on February 20 2020 04:39:19 PM MST
Who's bonded bullet they using?
Title: Re: Replicating Underwod 180gn. Bonded Ammo?
Post by: Star Child on February 21 2020 05:48:49 AM MST
Quote from: AlinMi on February 20 2020 04:39:19 PM MST
Who's bonded bullet they using?

Speer Gold Dot 180gr. bullet.  My duty ammo is Speer 40S&W with this 180gr. bullet. So far we have had excellent results with this ammo.