Evening, any of you tried Underwood's 10mm Lehigh Defense - 100gr Xtreme Defense Ammo? I'm not exactly sure why I ordered a few boxes of them, as I would not use this light of bullet for carry; not that they wouldn't perform just fine. Once I saw the advertised velocity / muzzle energy for these bad boys, it was over. This stuff has to be a hoot to shoot 😀
Thanks
Ken
* Muzzle Velocity: 1825 fps
* Muzzle Energy: 740 ft lbs
* Penetration:18 inches
Ken,
I have shot other Underwood ammo with the light for caliber Lehigh bullets. While Buffalo Bore shows MV for different barrel lengths, Underwood shows best case velocities. It should otherwise do everything they claim. Please share your results. Going from 1800 fps to zero in 18 inches is an amazing energy dump for a non expanding bullets. It's true as far as I know.
I bought the Lehigh bullets only in a 115gr and loaded them myself. If penetration is the goal, Lehigh is on top of the game. If looking for a killing bullet, it ain't so great. Yeah, it punches a hole deep but shooting feral hogs will have you either chasing them down or having to put another round in the hog at close range to ensure a deadly shot. I was highly impressed when I bought them. Now, not so much. I don't find them superior to a good HP bullet in a pistol cartridge. The Controlled Chaos in a 7.62x 39 is just mean and accurate out of my AR, though. By far the best killing bullet for the 7.62x 39 I've seen by a huge margin.
Thanks, I picked up some of UW's Controlled Chaos in .223 some time ago for coyote hunting (way overkill I'm sure) but haven't had a chance to try them
Ken
Quote from: Trapper6L on November 15 2019 10:31:56 AM MST
I bought the Lehigh bullets only in a 115gr and loaded them myself. If penetration is the goal, Lehigh is on top of the game. If looking for a killing bullet, it ain't so great. Yeah, it punches a hole deep but shooting feral hogs will have you either chasing them down or having to put another round in the hog at close range to ensure a deadly shot. I was highly impressed when I bought them. Now, not so much. I don't find them superior to a good HP bullet in a pistol cartridge. The Controlled Chaos in a 7.62x 39 is just mean and accurate out of my AR, though. By far the best killing bullet for the 7.62x 39 I've seen by a huge margin.
+1 on the Controlled Chaos being wicked good. Used them on feral hogs myself and they were VERY effective.
Trapper, please share a bit more about your 115gr Extreme Defender experience. I haven't gotten around to trying them in a hunting application, but intend to.
Additional details about you experience testing them on feral hogs would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Might preface this with the actual hunting conditions. I snare fences with 3/16 stainless aircraft cable. Breaking pressure is over 3500lbs on this cable. I cut 1"x1" heavy wall angle iron and drill it for locks. I have all of the tools to put the snares together using the lead stays. I make extension cables at 8 ft long with the snares roughly 8 ft long. You can only use these at real heavy duty points like a tree or a very large fence post. I use brush and whatever is around to close up full access under the fence to drive the hogs to the snare. Most normally, I catch them by the snout with the cable right behind the tusks. Sometimes it ends up around a foot or the neck. I also hunt while going thru the pasture with rifle. The 10mm R1 Longslide is my truck gun and when I drive up on a hog in the snare, the 10mm comes out in my hand while I have a 40SW Semi Compact Baby Eagle under my arm in a shoulder holster. When you drive up, the hog literally will explode. Most people won't get out of the truck. It's a major rodeo like you've never seen most likely. I try to get within 25 feet so I can get a better shot on one. The Lehigh bullets will shoot smooth thru the hog and not much wound channel at all. I've had better luck with plain ol' lead bullets when it comes to a killing bullet. Kinda reminds me of my shooting a 350lb hog at 150yds with a 45-70 using 405gr Remington bullet at 1800'ps. I hit the hog square in the shoulder and she folded. But then I saw dirt kick up about 75yds past her. Then again at another 150 yds and again another 100 yds and then it hit the dirt the last time over 500yds out. But the 10mm Lehigh reminds me of that. It punches a nice hole and keeps going. Not much energy expended on the animal. Most commonly, if it weren't for the hog being in a snare, while an eventual killing shot, there's not much of any blood on the ground to trail up a wounded or dead hog. I like bullets that make a huge impact on the animal. A pass thru to me is a bullet failure to expand and transfer its energy to the animal. My expectations of the 115gr Lehigh bullets were that it was going to be a meat grinder but a pass thru unlikely due to the light weight. It hasn't happened like that yet. So for me the score for Lehigh is even 1 to 1. The pistol bullets for my usage is a fail. The Controlled Chaos is just plain ptomaine.
Thanks Trapper!
Ken
Good to know.
Chronoed the 100gr underwood load in Glock 40 with 7" KKM barrel.
Avg = 2060fps
Muzzle energy = 942 FPE
This is getting close to the 7.62x39/300BLK ballistics territory with similar barrel lengths.
It prints 2" - 3" 5-round groups at 25 yards offhand. It outshoots me for sure. Recoil is noticeably lighter than 220gr hard casts pushed to 1300fps.
No doubt it is a great penetrator round with excellent accuracy, but I would like to see someone doing a gel test.
Quote from: kacheski on January 11 2020 09:25:29 PM MST
No doubt it is a great penetrator round with excellent accuracy, but I would like to see someone doing a gel test.
A few to get you started.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMiE-MXJLsI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AYLNbCP5uiM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eaceAmKNQ_o
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsE9ENCJ5o
Interesting tests
Quote from: Rojo27 on January 12 2020 06:41:09 AM MST
Quote from: kacheski on January 11 2020 09:25:29 PM MST
No doubt it is a great penetrator round with excellent accuracy, but I would like to see someone doing a gel test.
A few to get you started.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMiE-MXJLsI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AYLNbCP5uiM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eaceAmKNQ_o
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsE9ENCJ5o
Thanks, I have watched all of them but none of them tested the 100gr bullet. I wonder if the higher speed can make a difference.
On one of the videos, the penetration was way to far, seemed like it was something like 21", however like the guy said after shooting the hog that was not a pass through, gel is different then a shooting a 2 or 4 legged critter. I'll email Kevin from Underwood for his thoughts on penetration. According to Underwood's technical data, they are seeing 18", which is a little on the deep side for me
TECHNICAL INFORMATION
Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 100 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Brass
BALLISTICS INFORMATION
Muzzle Velocity: 1825 fps
Muzzle Energy: 740 ft lbs
Penetration:18 inches
Thanks
Ken
Actually the video may have been for the 90gr, so 18" for the 100gr may be correct, but still to deep in my opinion.
Thanks
Ken
Quote from: Kenk on January 12 2020 02:29:00 PM MST
Actually the video may have been for the 90gr, so 18" for the 100gr may be correct, but still to deep in my opinion.
Thanks
Ken
Remember all those tests were done in "Clear Ballistics Gel"..... CBG is not equivalent to authentic FBI ordinance gel and it very commonly permits deeper penetration. The differences are well documented. Clear gel is much, much easier to work with and yields "similar" results but CBG results are definitely different than FBI protocol Ordence gel (which is the 12" to 18" basis).
FBI Ordenance Gel:
Kind & Knox or Vyse 250-A ordnance gelatin tissue simulcast. The mixture is 10%, by weight. Properly calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin is a reliable tissue simulant. Validation of ballistic gelatin is conducted by firing a .177" steel BB at 590 feet per second (fps), plus or minus 15 fps, into the gelatin, resulting in 8.5 centimeters (cm), plus or minus 1 cm, penetration (2.95" - 3.74"). Gelatin showed be stored at 40° F until just prior to testing.
Thanks Rojo, saw that in one of the videos with the .177 BB, very fascinating
Morning folks, just in from Underwood. In my limited opinion, 17.5-18" still seems like a lot of penetration for a SD load???
Hello Kenneth,
Testing the 10mm 100gr Xtreme Defender, we consistently pull 17.5-18" when using properly calibrated 10% ordinance gel. We're aware some tests online show other results and we have to question the quality, type, and calibration of the gel when this happens.
Quote from: Kenk on January 13 2020 09:57:31 AM MST
Morning folks, just in from Underwood. In my limited opinion, 17.5-18" still seems like a lot of penetration for a SD load???
Hello Kenneth,
Testing the 10mm 100gr Xtreme Defender, we consistently pull 17.5-18" when using properly calibrated 10% ordinance gel. We're aware some tests online show other results and we have to question the quality, type, and calibration of the gel when this happens.
Thanks for sharing Ken.
My personal preference in handgun calibers leans toward deeper is better (within the perimeters of FBI 12-18" penetration spectrum). Current conventional wisdom in handgun terminal ballistics says penetration depth is #1 priority. Other wounding mechanisms follow in importance. Not too many cases of people gravely wounded by projectile after passing through someone else first. Can anyone sight one documted example? Lots from shots that missed intended targets or ricochets.
With that said, wouldn't use hardcast, fmj, Extrme Penetrator, or JSP in a handgun in urban, populated area; as all are known to penetrate way, way more than 12-18" in FBI ordinance gel; and walls, windows, doors, etc.
However, this is a decision every single person carrying or utilizing a firearm has to make for themselves as the consequences, good or bad lie completely and totally with the party firing the shot(s). Wise to make the most informed decision you can as God forbid it ever becomes necessary, you and your family will live the rest if your lives in the shadow of that choice.
Well said, Thanks Rojo!