I "need" another handgun and decided this one will be in 10mm. I have narrowed my choices down to the Rock Island Tac Ultra FSHC OR the Springfield Armory XD(M) with the 5.25" barrel. Both have good features. i will be using this as a back woods gun with no intention (at this time) of using it as a CC gun.
I'll turn this choice over to you guys. What gun would be the best? Reliability and function are very important.
Thanks.
For me and my backwoods adventures both of those would be too large. Personally, I chose a glock 29.
I could just as easily go with a G20.
I'll continue to watch this thread with interest at which one you chose. Good luck :)
Rancher next door, his SIL has both of those except his RI is a single stack. They both run pretty slick with no issues when I shot them. The RI is by far the better gun in accuracy and overall shooting pleasure. Seems to have a little less recoil with the same loads. Between his two guns, no question, the RI is all over the Springfield.
Sure like my RIA Rock Ultra full size HC, and no issues whatsoever, it is relatively accurate and the trigger is awesome for an inexpensive weapon. Other than its weight, 2.9 lb's empty, you can't beat it with a stick
Ken
I reviewed your post history and it depends on what you did last spring.
If you picked up a Glock 40/20 or a 21+10mm barrel, then get the RIA to add a hammer fired 10mm to compliment your space gat.
If not, I would select the Springfield (or look again at a Glock 20 or 40).
I have the RIA FSHC and like it very much. I also have a Glock 20 and like it very much. And I have a XD 9mm that I like very much.
Yep, like my XDm 3.8 9mm too. Can't say much about factory trigger, but that's easily fixed
SQLBULLET,
While researching the possibility of converting my Mod 21 to a 10 mm a while back, I read too many posts and acquired too much info that swayed me away from making the change. So now I'm just going to get a new 10 mm pistol. Just not sure which one. With the number of people on this forum I'm sure I'll get enough info to make the right choice. They are both great guns though.
I really like my XDM 10mm with the 4.5" bbl.. I put a Vortex Venom red dot sight on it. it's a good hunting pistol.
RIA Ultra FS HC :D. Yep, I like it. ;D
Trigger is very good!
It fits my hand great and the finger position on the trigger is just in the right spot. ;D
The recoil is very manageable probably due to weight. Only tried the Sig Elite Performance 180gr TMJs/$25 a box of 50 at Academy (chrono at 1250 FPS just as the spec). Probably won't buy them again as I am reloading now.
With a baggy shirt and OWB holster, I can EDC. I don't mind the weight at all.
The only things I don't like:
The field strip. You HAVE to make a little tool out of a paper clip for disassembly. ::) Geez. >:( (see attachment jpg).
It only came with one mag(not really a dislike). Oh, well, ordered two when I ordered it and just ordered another through the rebate they are currently offering.
No opinion on the XDM. Sorry.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Yea, the disassembly of the spring assembly is a bit of a pain at first, but gets easier with time. Use caution when doing the paper clip trick, mine got away from me the first time and left a nice bruise on my chest... operator error to be sure
Thanks
Ken
Agreed. No so hard after you do it once or twice. Just have to buy a package of paperclips in case I lose it. :( I put the tool in the original box the RIA came in just in case. Probably will make a fee extra to throw in a drawer. :))
Springfield no question IMO
Haven't come across an RIA that ran reliably out of the box yet. Great project 1911s and 2011s but if you are looking for works right out of the box there is no comparison between the two.
I have yet to have my Springfield fail a single time with about 2500 rounds of everything from light to nuclear through it.
My 2 cents... ROCK ISLAND ARMORY
16+1
(https://i.imgur.com/KXUxypL.jpg?2)
8+1
(https://i.imgur.com/bQVXK7B.jpg?1)
^^ I removed the mag pad on this one for better concealment when carried...
Fully supported chambers...ramped bull barrel...no bushing.
Triggers are excellent...breaking at 4.5 lbs
Rear sight is adjustable...dovetailed front sight is red fiber optic...and quickly acquired
Fit and finish superb...locks up tight.
Field stripping both is not a problem...
Own a Glock 30SF...never owned an XD...but have fired my friends in 10mm.
Seemed alright...but, I prefer 1911 triggers.
.
Afternoon SHOOTER13, How much trouble was it to remove the flared magwel?, as having it on does make concealing it more difficult
Thanks
Ken
Shooter13 just said he removed the magazine basepad. This is very trivial.
Removing the magwell on the HC model is more involved.
http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/rock-ultra-fs-hc-10mm-inbound
The second page of that thread gets into some pictures during and after.
TL;DR - Just removing the magwell is easy, but leaves an unsightly gap. The only option is to reduce the magwell size. Plan on bench grinder or belt sander for bulk removal, followed by files and sandpaper to clean up. Then it will need a new finish.
Quote from: Kenk on October 09 2019 11:48:30 AM MDT
Afternoon SHOOTER13, How much trouble was it to remove the flared magwel?, as having it on does make concealing it more difficult Thanks
Ken
'Afternoon Ken...
I didn't remove the mag
well from my RIA Ultra FS...just the mag
pad.
As you know, without the pad, the magazine sits flush
inside the well...
and with the smooth,
positive ejection of the magazine when the mag release button is hit...
there is no need to remove the mag well...the mag flies out into hand.
I currently own six 8 round magazines for that Ultra FS...only two have been thus modified for CC.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z5iRllF.jpg?2)
( pic
before removal of the two aforementioned magazine pads )
...{ sorry for the delay in reply...a very huge oak branch decided to fall a few feet in front of the wife and I
as we were bringing in groceries...and I had to chainsaw it into smaller pieces for roadside pickup before the AM }
:o
.
Thanks man, and an happy everyone is safe. One of the other guys removed the mag well on his RIA FS HC 16 Rd and sounded like it was quite a production. I guess I'll just dress around the RIA as with all my carry weapons
Thanks
Ken
Yea...thanks Ken. That oak branch could have been a life changer/ender.
As far as the HC mag well, I like it and see no sense in removing it, as it's a range gun, not a carry piece.
And, as far as the FS mag well, I find it really doesn't add that much to the length or girth of the piece under concealment garments to warrant it's removal.
I conceal carry on a Versa Carry Double Ply Gun Belt...and the 1911 gets a Versa Carry Water Buffalo Leather IWB or OWB Protector S1/S2 Belt Slide Holster and VC Mag Pouches, depending on the situation...be it weather or cover garment selected.
(https://i.imgur.com/9mvHyRz.jpg?2)
( again...pic taken before mag pad removal was deemed prudent )
https://www.versacarry.com/products/
.
Nice : )
I have a single stack RIA and a 4.5" XDM.
After doing some tweaking to the RIA recoil spring assembly, it shoots well and I don't have to schedule a flight to go and retrieve the ejected brass...
:))
I like my XDM too. I just put Williams adjustable fiber optic sights on it too, so I'll be sporting it on my side this deer season.
I reload my own ammo and between the 2 I think the RIA is slightly more accurate than the XDM. It's also easier to tune the 1911 due to better availability of aftermarket parts (many more options for recoil springs, triggers, etc...).
If I were you, I'd get them both!
:P
Thank you to all who posted their views and experience with the weapons in question. It is appreciated. I decided to get the Rock Island FSHC 10mm. In a few weeks I'll post my opinion of this gun. Thanks again.
Evening Marchboom,
The XDm is an awesome weapon as well. As for myself, I am 100% happy with the RIA Ultra FS HC 10mm, it has proven itself completely reliable thus far, as well as being a viable deer hunting pistol / the trigger and accuracy are outstanding for a 700.00ish dollar pistol.
Ken
Good Choice...
Looking forward to your range review Marchboom.
.
I have the RIA FS high-cap, and have had it for maybe 2 years now. I have not actually fired it all that much, probably not even 1,000 rds. I shoot only handloads, and have not found a load, bullet, COAL that this gun loves yet. But that's no fault of the weapon--only means I need to spend a little more time working up something it's a bit happier with.
As for the gun and your purposes, I must say this thing is a heavy load--one reason I like it as a range toy, but might not be thrilled actually lugging it around. Presumably you can read the specs, and compare to stuff you already own as far as mass.
Now, for shooting it.
After only a few rounds, the fiber optic insert in the front sight came out, probably downrange somewhere, and I never recovered it. That doesn't both me too much because I don' care much for fiber optic in the first place, and prefer the sight picture with a hole in the front sight to a flashlight in the front sight. This is a range gun, and the only range I shoot at is indoor. No problem. Replacement fiber inserts are cheap and easy to find, so this is a bit of a minor issue even if you like fiber.
For a double-wide 1911, it's quite comfortable, and I have medium hands with somewhat short stubby fingers. I find it perfectly comfy from strictly a size perspective.
Other than that--the gun has more sharp corners on it than I could tolerate--I mean they're frickin' everywhere--the back of the magwell, the thumb safety, the grip safety--you name it. I took a tiny jewelers file to everything and rounded every corner I could find, and it still chews my hand up after 100 rounds. This is the one and only place where I wish they'd pay more attention.
Other than this, the fit and manufacturing quality of all the parts is to my liking, and I truly love the overall finish. It is exactly what I prefer--no swirly logos, no massive stamps that have swollen the adjacent material into a crater, no instruction manuals etched in the slide. From an appearance perspective, it gets a 10 from me.
So, that may sound like a lot of negatives, but I'd buy the match ultra (or whatever they call it) in a heartbeat. It's a well-made 1911 overall, and IMO, well worth the price--a great deal compared to the absurd prices of many 1911s. I have no real disappointment in having to work through the ammo/handload issues, or in benching out the human interface on the weapon--I still think it's very well made and it's a pleasure to shoot, for a while :)
Other 10s I own include the G20, G29 and EAA Witness Hunter. I'd prefer to shoot any of them over the G20, which is by far the most unpleasant shooting handgun I own in any caliber.
As for the XDM 10, I don't own one, but it is my intended next 10...but in the shorter length.
Get the rock! I just got the one you're looking at to go with my Big Rock! Maybe when I find a Delta Gold Cup the baby rock might go to offset the cost.
Very much looking forward to your first experience with the RIA hi-cap! I think you'll really enjoy it.
In my comments about the comfort of the grip area, I should have mentioned that I have zero callouses on my hands--I operate a keyboard for a living. Over the past few days, while working at said keyboard, I've put on the OptiVisors and spent more time melting away the corners and edges that I can feel when I really grip the gun tight. Although you'd have to have a close-up photo to see the work, the difference in comfort is huge for me. I can put a death grip on the gun, move that strong hand around a bit, and not even feel those edges and corners now. With closer scrutiny, I was able to see a couple of places I'd overlooked before, and knocked 'em down in just a few minutes.
We moved about 18 mos ago to a new place, and while going through my office closet a few days ago, I found a cardboard box with 2,000 rds of handloads I didn't know I had. So--time to get to the range and see how this thing handles once again.
You do the same! Enjoy and congrats!!
Rock Island Tac Ultra FSHC Review:
After doing some handloading to break in this gun I quickly found out that it requires more than just a "break-in" load. I loaded up some 10mm plated bullets I had laying around with a middle of the road charge. Right in the middle between a starting load and a max load. Bullet weight was 135, 155 & 165. About 25% of the rounds failed to feed. If I slightly pulled the slide back the round popped up and slid into the barrel. Suspecting that the recoil spring is rather stiff on these 10mm guns I loaded up some LaserCast 200 gr hard cast bullets with Power Pistol. Loads ran from 6.8 to 7.6 grains. All rounds functioned well with no failures to feed. Average bullet speed was 1160 FPS. No high pressure signs (but getting close). I'm assuming that Rock Island designed this gun around the power you would get from factory loads and wanted reliability above all else. I just didn't load them hot enough. I guess that if I wanted to shoot lower powered rounds I could just swap out the recoil spring for a lighter one and all would be well. But I bought a 10mm for it's power so I will load for it. Group at 15 yds was 1" and that was with my not-so-great glasses. I really like this gun. Feels great with the wider grip and the extra weight definitely tames the recoil a bit. However, I fired 80 rounds the first day and my hand hurt for several days afterwards. I tried several brands of factory ammo and they all ran very well...no flaws. Field stripping this gun for cleaning is very easy. Different than a traditional 1911 but not difficult.
For a holster I got a BlackHawk Universal Spec-Ops Pistol Harness available from Amazon ($57). If you've never tried a chest holster you don't know what you're missing. Very comfortable and it is never in the way. And with the weight of this gun when loaded (how else would you carry it?) this can be a much better choice than a belt holster. I plan to do a more load testing with different powders and I'll post my results on this forum.
Many thanks to everyone who answered my questions. Your knowledge is invaluable.
Thanks for the report! You know, I had a lot of the same kind of FTFs, with the same solution--round is 'almost' there, and retracting the slide and releasing homes the round. But your comment re: spring weight got me to thinking--I pulled the stock spring and put in a Wilson combat 20 lb spring, and, assuming that's a stronger spring, it could be the cause of at least some of my issues.
So...I have to go to the club tomorrow to pick up my new XDm 10 that's just come in--I'll take the Rock along with me, and some of the hotter jacketed loads I have, AND the stock spring. I also ran most all of my ammo thru the seater and uniformed them all to about 1.255" and change--your experience gives me new hope of finding that elusive sweet spot.
Now, you didn't mention a last-round-in-mag jam problem--have any of that? I had a dozen of those last session.
Bongo Boy,
The recoil spring choice is one of compromise. You want a spring that allows the slide to cycle completely BUT you don't want the slide to have so much slide speed that it slams the frame so hard that it might start cracking it. Would be interesting to call Rock Island and ask them what the spring "poundage" is for the factory spring.
I had no problems with the mag that came with the gun and the other one that I ordered from Grab-a-gun (same as factory). Every round fed properly AFTER I solved the FTF problem by increasing the powder charge.
Good luck with your RIA and your new XDM.