If they produce those 140 all Coppers pictured on the page in the loading I read about (1500 FPS+) they are on my buy list!
http://crossfireammunition.com/
At any rate another source.
I didn't see any 10mm at 1500 fps, did I miss something? ???
It was on another forum. A 16-40 owner tested some of the load they are developing over a Chrony.
The bullet on the right looks like a Winchester Ranger talon.
Maybe they will load some of these in 10mm for us. 8)
Write them and tell them what you want. I think the big problem with 10mm is they don't know what we expect.
I posted that chrony data.
I'm doing my amateur best to advise him on 10mm. No, they don't know too much about the cartridge.
So what is the consensus on hot 10mm and stock Glocks? Is it OK? Is it only OK in Gen 3 or later barrels? I'm trying to steer him correctly, but my experience is strictly with 1911s.
FYI, since I'm lacking any true Glock knowledge, I told him at minimum, he should put a disclaimer like this on his hot 10mm. Rather than specifically listing pistols / barrels that are OK, I say "properly supported chambers", and I only specifically mention one type of gun, which we all know has an unsupported chamber (the old Delta Elites). What do you guys think of my verbiage below?
Note:
- These are maximum pressure loads and SHOULD NOT BE FIRED in pistols that do not have properly supported chambers (for example, original "stock" Colt Delta Elites). Improper case head support may result in bulged or ruptured cases. Crossfire ammunition assumes no liability for damaged pistols due to ruptured cases, if your pistol does not have a properly supported chamber.
- Most factory 10mm pistols come equipped with a recoil spring that is designed to properly functional with lower pressure ammunition. You will probably need to install a heavier recoil spring to lower slide velocity, and to help keep the action "locked" while the pressure is still high. For 1911's, 22 to 24 lb recoil springs are recommended.
- It is also recommended that standard 1911's with "linked" barrel systems be equipped with flat-bottomed firing pin stops and extra power hammer mainsprings. This also assists in keeping the action "locked" longer, while the pressures are still high.
hoss622, are you saying you shot the Crossfire ammo and it delivered 1500 fps? ???
What weight bullet?
I suppose it was 10mm?
Do you know what powder and amount he is using for the 1540 140gr?
There are several options to get those numbers with that weight 800X, LongShot, Power Pistol...
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 15 2013 07:03:10 PM MDT
hoss622, are you saying you shot the Crossfire ammo and it delivered 1500 fps? ???
What weight bullet?
I suppose it was 10mm?
Yes I did, and it's what I keep loaded in my gun.
Crossfire loaded up 1000 rounds of the hot stuff for Nate at Triad Gun, in Akron (my buddy). I took a double handful of the stuff, and put four rounds over my Chrony.
The bullet is a 140 copper solid hollow point, made by General Bullet. The top velocity was 1554, the low was 1519 with an average of 1540. Obviously, a small sample.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_8197_zps5d7b558e.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_4276_zps11f2f976.jpg)
The gun is a P16-40, with a Storm Lake match 10mm barrrel, 22 lb recoil spring, flat bottomed firing pin stop and heavy hammer mainspring.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_2969_zps7da472eb.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_2971_zps877b4e99.jpg)
Quote from: Intercooler on March 15 2013 07:25:15 PM MDT
Do you know what powder and amount he is using for the 1540 140gr?
Nope.
So what do you guys think about the stock Glocks? Should Crossfire warn against them? Any difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3?
Quote from: hoss622 on March 16 2013 08:05:33 PM MDTSo what do you guys think about the stock Glocks? Should Crossfire warn against them?
It's hard to say. With that bullet I just don't know what to guess regarding a pressure level. It does seem like it would be over 37,500psi, but I just don't know.
QuoteAny difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3?
No clue on that one either. Guess I'm proving to be pretty useless in this conversation. :'(
Some of the Gen 2 Glocks I have seen photos of on Glocktalk had poorly supported chambers. I would use due caution if someone was using one of these. Their best bet would be to purchase a Gen 3 Glock barrel, or an aftermarket barrel.
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 17 2013 04:10:54 AM MDT
Some of the Gen 2 Glocks I have seen photos of on Glocktalk had poorly supported chambers. I would use due caution if someone was using one of these. Their best bet would be to purchase a Gen 3 Glock barrel, or an aftermarket barrel.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to shoot them out of a Gen 3 Glock and see what the brass looks like.
Quote from: hoss622 on March 17 2013 07:37:17 AM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 17 2013 04:10:54 AM MDT
Some of the Gen 2 Glocks I have seen photos of on Glocktalk had poorly supported chambers. I would use due caution if someone was using one of these. Their best bet would be to purchase a Gen 3 Glock barrel, or an aftermarket barrel.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to shoot them out of a Gen 3 Glock and see what the brass looks like.
True. And when you compare the Gen 3 barrel with a poorly supported Gen 2 barrel, the lack of support is painfully obvious.
If anyone would be willing to testfire / chronograph in a Gen 3 Glock, I could see if Crossfire would send them a box or two of ammo? Also, might be curious to see what happens in a aftermarket barrel?
No offense but I sure hope they are testing in these platforms of their own before sending some to their first line trusted customers. This is how those who are here now did it.
Quote from: Intercooler on March 17 2013 11:00:50 AM MDT
No offense but I sure hope they are testing in these platforms of their own before sending some to their first line trusted customers. This is how those who are here now did it.
No offense taken. The ammo I'm shooting was developed at the request of one customer, using his gun to test fire it, with his consent. A Springfield Omega. I took and fired the ammo, knowing this and accepting the risk.
I'll tell them they might want to buy a 10mm gun or two if they want to go commercial with this.
Yup. That's how DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore, Underwood and PBR, etc... have done it. I'm sure many others too behind the scenes. Also helps to put that rating out there for marketing. Just make sure it hits close to it or you end up with egg on the face.
I've been talking back and forth with Milo (from Crossfire), explaining the ins and outs of the serious 10mm crowd...
I think the next time he loads some of the hot stuff, I'll get some more to do a more statistically significant chronograph session. Also, may have a Glock (with Gen 3 stock and Storm Lake barrels) lined up for testing.
I explained to Milo how important it is to report velocities that customers can actually achieve with guns that they can actually own, so it is very important to report 5" 1911 and 4.6" Glock velocities. He was talking about only chronographing out of my friends 6" Omega, and I don't think that's a great idea, since 6" barrels, although not rare, are not common, especially in self defense guns.
Finally, I told him that if he is going to continue down the path of "hot 10mm", this crowd will want a heavier, premium hollow point load, and a heavy hardcast load.
Milo is a bit worried about the liability of selling ammo that can only be shot in certain guns. I don't know. It seems like it's done often enough, as long as it is very clear what it can be fired in. Do the other "nuclear" ammunition manufacturers state clearly ON THE PACKAGING that they can't be shot in unsupported chambers? It seems like only saying this on the website wouldn't be enough. I've never seen an Underwood Ammo box. I know Garrett does this, right on the front of their ammo boxes:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/44mag.html
I really like that Garrett reports the pressure, and reports it using the CUP method rather than PSI. Very good data to have.