Just got an optic ready XDM and mounted a Fastfire 3. Unfortunately, the trigger is SO BAD I could not determine how accurate any load was at the range. This thing is well beyond bad. It creeps unevenly a bit, stops, creeps some more, and again. Finally after squeezing hard it shoots. Truly impossible to hold on a target. Absolutely unacceptable and it ought to be embarrassing for a major manufacturer to release something as bad as this. I suppose if the adrenaline is flowing and you're using it at close range in an actual encounter it wouldn't matter much but that's not how pistols receive the bulk of their use. For shooting at a range or in competition, which I do not do, this is a 1 on a ten scale and probably on a 100 scale. Pure garbage. Bow your head, Springfield. You ought to be embarrassed.
I have bought a replacement and will install this weekend. I doubt it could be worse.
That's really interesting as the 4.5" XDM has been calling to me lately. The two things I have been researching are trigger jobs and night sights. Please share with us the results of your trigger work.
I am looking at Powder River Precision for my XDm 3.8 compact 9mm. From what I can tell, Powder River Offers one of the best XDm triggers available, If there are better options, please let me know
Ken
This is what I'm having my son, an ex Air Force armorer, install: "Powder River Precision, Drop in Trigger Kit, Black, Fits XDM Models In 45 ACP Only, Not Compatible With The First Generation XD Models Or XD Mod.2 Models." He checked with the manufacturer and was told the 10 is on the 45 frame so this trigger is proper. At this time this was the only after market trigger we could locate and it's not particularly expensive. Once I get to try it I'll report.
Springfield ought to realize what a black eye for them selling a decent pistol with a horrible trigger is but apparently they do not.
Nope, but at least there are options, be cautious on the exact trigger. One of there's is something like a 2.5lb pull, for sure bad news if it's a carry weapon
Thanks
Ken
Well my ex-AF armorer son tried over the weekend to install the Powder River trigger with the help of a you tube video uploaded by Springfield - and failed. He said the video was woefully incomplete skipping some steps entirely. He'll bring it to a practicing gunsmith shortly. Not much use for this message other than to warn others who might be tempted to undertake this themselves.
Thanks Sneed, already talked to my Smith about this, he said they are not hard, but can be tricky, for $20.00... it's worth every penny : )
An update. My son called Powder River Precision to complain about their inadequate and incomplete installation instructions and ended up talking with a tech person who had lots of experience with such problems. He walked my son through the installation and it was done shortly. The tech mentioned he had done this innumerable times in 20 years. Perhaps they should consider creating and posting complete instructions but at least their customer service was excellent. BTW, the trigger is a lot better than the original Springfield pos but also the first striker fired pistol I've owned so I still notice some creep as the spring is loading. After that it releases cleanly without the need for the death squeeze the Springfield trigger required.
Glad the Powder River trigger brought you some relief. None of us has much use for a handgun with a lousy trigger.
Weird my trigger is not that bad and is perfect for SD handgun. I learn the trigger rather than replacing a trigger on an SD gun. Call me what you want but I am not giving any DA or jury a reason to put my butt up for years. A trigger job on a SD weapon can put you in bad defensive scenario if you are prosecuted by some liberal DA. It's personal choice good luck with it.
The trigger on my XDm 5.25 was not bad, it just had more travel than I liked. I installed a PRP trigger to lessen the travel. Wasn't real concerned about reducing pull weight. I have installed PRP trigger kits on 4 of my guns and I think they are great. Sorry to hear that you had trouble with yours but they are relatively easy to install for the do it yourselfer.
Hey Ramjet, That's a great point about learning the trigger rather than changing it. Now that I have run aprx 1500 rd's through my XDm compact 9, I'm not disliking it nearly as much, and then there is that liability part you were talking about
Thanks
Ken
I really wonder how much additional "legal exposure" there would be with an improved trigger on a SD or EDC weapon... I hear this mentioned every now and then.
I mean many weapons have light triggers out of the box... would I be in more jeopardy with a good 1911 ?
What about using hot loads (+P) ? You could make the same argument.
Personally, I would rather have a weapon that has a crisp trigger and that I can shoot more accurately.
PS. I have Powder River improvements on all my XD's & XDm's
I've never really bought into the whole never carry your own handloads, don't have an improved trigger, etc, in a self defense gun. If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in the situation where you need to use deadly force and you come out of it alive, your still ahead of the game. If you're unfortunate enough to have an overzealous prosecutor involved, they're still going to come after you, regardless of having a trigger job, or not.
Fortunately, in the case of the XD, Powder River Precision states on their website that their triggers are already in some factory guns. So it isn't really an aftermarket change as much as an original equipment swap.
I'd also be happy to explain to a jury that my old Delta Elite has a Wilson Combat trigger in it, just like every Wilson 1911 ever made.
Plus if it's a clean shoot your miles ahead. In MN, you best have 10 people videoing the guy on top of you with a butcher knife, and you still may have problems.
Ken
Quote from: Ramjet on November 28 2019 03:44:07 PM MST
Weird my trigger is not that bad and is perfect for SD handgun. I learn the trigger rather than replacing a trigger on an SD gun. Call me what you want but I am not giving any DA or jury a reason to put my butt up for years. A trigger job on a SD weapon can put you in bad defensive scenario if you are prosecuted by some liberal DA. It's personal choice good luck with it.
Not trying to be a smart aleck but do you have any case law to back this up or just internet speculation?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Hey Mike, nope, no case laws to back that up. I work with the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, and the MN FBI Citizens Acadamy (Which took me 4 years to become affiliated with) and have read about several such rulings when it comes to SD shootings. All I know is that MN makes it harder than some states when it comes to these situations. The bottom line is that in Minnesota, you better have an EXTRA clean / justified shoot. At the end of the day, I don't know if aftermarket triggers or running home made reloads have anything to do with it. I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN to avoid temporary incarceration
Thanks
Ken
Quote from: Kenk on November 30 2019 08:33:41 PM MST
I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN...
Thanks
Ken
Guys,
This is the reality EVERYWHERE. Using a firearm in defense of self or others is the most serious business in which any of us will ever be involved. When people ask,"Do you have case law to prove..." or "Show me where the law says I can't modify...", it does nothing to improve understanding of how the law works.
The fact of the matter is that there are different attitudes about guns and the law in different areas of the country. Here is an example of this-
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/north-phoenix/witness-shoots-suspect-during-armed-robbery-attempt-at-a-phoenix-walgreens
A customer shot an armed robber at point-blank range. He gave the robber no verbal warnings, just opened fire after watching the hold-up for several minutes. The Good Samaritan was not arrested, his firearm was not seized (though it was photographed inside and out at the scene, including during full disassembly). To date, according to my brother-in-law who is a mid-level admin trooper with Arizona Dept. of Public Safety (their name for state police), their have been no criminal or civil proceedings against the Good Samaritan.
The circumstances in that case are different than what Ken would encounter in Minnesota, or for another member in Colorado or Florida. EVERY time we modify something, and that modification causes injury or death to others, we are liable. Put 12" of lift and 40" tires on your F-350 and get in an accident? You will face liability because you altered the manufacturers design. Do work on your house without approved plans and legal inspections, and then suffer a catastrophic failure of your work where someone is injured? Once again you are liable. Both of these examples have more precedent in case law than you might believe. And you believe that the specifics of a gun used in a shooting- whether self-defense or criminal- do not get brought up in court? Buddy, you're living in a bubble!
Liability can be found anywhere, and nobody can deny that. It is not good to have a cavalier attitude about the ramifications of carrying a firearm and having to use it. Knowledge of the laws in YOUR state, county, and city are what should guide you. Again, what happened in Arizona doesn't mean a thing in YOUR state. Want to modify your gun? Go ahead, it's your right to do anything you want with your possessions. If you are involved in a shooting, understand that those modifications most likely WILL be discussed during the grand jury or coroner's inquest.
For the record, I have Ghost Connectors in a few of my Glocks- but not my carry Glocks. For those, I agree with Ramjet and LEARN the gun instead of modifying it. The most I will ever do to a dedicated carry gun is to highly polish the internals, because everyone knows that Glock leaves too much in the way of tooling marks on their parts. I am just cleaning up factory parts.
And to the OP, I think much of your dissatisfaction with the trigger comes from your lack of exposure to striker-fired pistols. They have a completely different mechanism than a 1911 or a Sig , for example. NOTHING you do to it will make it as nice as a Series 70. Now, I understand not liking a trigger- I've owned many guns that had terrible triggers. Currently I own 6 XD's- 3 are Match models and I have a 10mm model en route to my LGS currently. The M-Series XD has a better trigger than the Service Grade model. If you didn't like the trigger in your XDM, I daresay you would have used a standard model as a hammer! If your trigger pull was truly as bad as you describe, you did yourself a disservice by not contacting Springfield Armory for repair. They are some of the most accommodating people you will deal with in the gun world. I have no doubt that they could have made things better for you too.
Very informative read, Thanks!
Ken
Know and understand use of force laws in any jurisdiction where you will go about armed. Review at least annually or before travel.
Know and understand the castle doctrine in any locale where you will sleep with a firearm for defense. Review at least annualy or before travel.
Spend money now to consult with a good defense attorney. Touch bases on occasion.
Omitting these steps, which most of us do, does far more to jeopardize you in the event you are involved in an SD shooting than a trigger job.
Quote from: woods_walker on December 01 2019 11:39:47 AM MST
Quote from: Kenk on November 30 2019 08:33:41 PM MST
I do know however that serious justification for SD shootings are essential in MN...
Thanks
Ken
Guys,
This is the reality EVERYWHERE. Using a firearm in defense of self or others is the most serious business in which any of us will ever be involved. When people ask,"Do you have case law to prove..." or "Show me where the law says I can't modify...", it does nothing to improve understanding of how the law works.
The fact of the matter is that there are different attitudes about guns and the law in different areas of the country. Here is an example of this-
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/north-phoenix/witness-shoots-suspect-during-armed-robbery-attempt-at-a-phoenix-walgreens
A customer shot an armed robber at point-blank range. He gave the robber no verbal warnings, just opened fire after watching the hold-up for several minutes. The Good Samaritan was not arrested, his firearm was not seized (though it was photographed inside and out at the scene, including during full disassembly). To date, according to my brother-in-law who is a mid-level admin trooper with Arizona Dept. of Public Safety (their name for state police), their have been no criminal or civil proceedings against the Good Samaritan.
The circumstances in that case are different than what Ken would encounter in Minnesota, or for another member in Colorado or Florida. EVERY time we modify something, and that modification causes injury or death to others, we are liable. Put 12" of lift and 40" tires on your F-350 and get in an accident? You will face liability because you altered the manufacturers design. Do work on your house without approved plans and legal inspections, and then suffer a catastrophic failure of your work where someone is injured? Once again you are liable. Both of these examples have more precedent in case law than you might believe. And you believe that the specifics of a gun used in a shooting- whether self-defense or criminal- do not get brought up in court? Buddy, you're living in a bubble!
Liability can be found anywhere, and nobody can deny that. It is not good to have a cavalier attitude about the ramifications of carrying a firearm and having to use it. Knowledge of the laws in YOUR state, county, and city are what should guide you. Again, what happened in Arizona doesn't mean a thing in YOUR state. Want to modify your gun? Go ahead, it's your right to do anything you want with your possessions. If you are involved in a shooting, understand that those modifications most likely WILL be discussed during the grand jury or coroner's inquest.
For the record, I have Ghost Connectors in a few of my Glocks- but not my carry Glocks. For those, I agree with Ramjet and LEARN the gun instead of modifying it. The most I will ever do to a dedicated carry gun is to highly polish the internals, because everyone knows that Glock leaves too much in the way of tooling marks on their parts. I am just cleaning up factory parts.
And to the OP, I think much of your dissatisfaction with the trigger comes from your lack of exposure to striker-fired pistols. They have a completely different mechanism than a 1911 or a Sig , for example. NOTHING you do to it will make it as nice as a Series 70. Now, I understand not liking a trigger- I've owned many guns that had terrible triggers. Currently I own 6 XD's- 3 are Match models and I have a 10mm model en route to my LGS currently. The M-Series XD has a better trigger than the Service Grade model. If you didn't like the trigger in your XDM, I daresay you would have used a standard model as a hammer! If your trigger pull was truly as bad as you describe, you did yourself a disservice by not contacting Springfield Armory for repair. They are some of the most accommodating people you will deal with in the gun world. I have no doubt that they could have made things better for you too.
Case law pretty much sets precedence. To say that if it doesn't exist in case law is irrelevant is pretty much not how it works.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I believe that part of the argument against such modifications is the whole "DEEP POCKETS" logic.
I'm sure stock XDm triggers vary, and maybe they vary a lot--I have no way of knowing. I just took delivery of mine recently, and assume it's of recent manufacture. I very much doubt the trigger has any negative impact at all on *my* accuracy with the gun, and of the 5 striker fired plastic guns I own, it's definitely among my favorites. At my age or with eyes my age, the trigger is way down on the list of issues. Getting a good sight picture without the target being so ungodly blurry I can't get the same point of aim twice is a way bigger deal. I'm starting to walk away satisfied with 3" groups (freehand) at 15 yds :(