I like to carry a heavier well-penetrating 10mm round when I conceal-open carry because I think a good round like for example 180gr XTP or 180gr Trophy Bonded is more likely to perform well when the angle of the adversary is not ideal (sideways, above you, etc.) , or large bones like the pelvis are hit. I also want a round that will pass through the spine of a large man from an angled shot since hitting the upper spine would cause an instant stop. I do not think a nice 10mm round is like a 12ga slug by any means, I just think it would break bones better than a good 9mm bullet would more often than not.
I understand shot placement is the most important, so the above assumes a 10mm handgun fits your hand well and that you can shoot well with it. If I expected trouble ahead of time I'd carry a chambered assault shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot, or an AR15.
What do you think?
The problem with picking defensive handgun ammo is that you don't know who your attacker(s) will he until he/she/it/they show up. It might be a 345-pound logger named Paul, or it might be a 98-pound crackhead they call Squiggy. What works ideally on one will either do too much or not enough for the other. Overpenetration is a serious problem, since it endangers bystanders, but underpenetration is also a problem since the bullet might not get into the plumbing or the skeletal structure.
10mm bullets penetrate pretty well. I want a controlled-expansion bullet with good penetration and enough mass to break bones, especially in the pelvic girdle. My wintertime carry load for a 10mm (if I carried one) would be a 165/180-grain Critical Defense load, which is what I carry in my .40 caliber duty gun. (In summer I carry something lighter/faster.) Heavier bullets do better on car bodies and auto glass, but if you want good terminal ballistics inside people, you have to give up a little mass for velocity (and thereby) expansion.
Is there a perfect bullet? Not for every scenario. But the bonded core stuff from Speer, Federal and others does right well in actual shootings. I'll play the odds and stick with that for my off-duty guns. I haven't tested the 10mm loads but I bet the bonded stuff would serve you just fine.
PJ
I would recommend a Jacketed Hollow point for a personal defense situation over a solid like the Trophy Bonded. The solid will more than likely pass through whereas the JHP's will likely expend all of their energy to the attacker or at least most of it even if it passes through. You have to thing about the body and what things are in the upper torso. Most organs like lungs are semi solid loaded with blood vessels but also have hollow spaces. Guts, stomach are hollow organs not as large of blood vessels. Liver is a pretty much solid organ with plenty blood vessels.
Bones if hit will likely break or shatter depending on age. Younger bones will be more forgiving. The blood loss trauma may take 4 to 6 minutes and even longer depending on exactly what is disrupted. Central nervous system disruption will usually stop a threat instantly.
Chose your self defensive ammo wisely. Depending on the time of year, climate may change your ammo of choice. Places you will be may decide which firearm and ammo you carry.
Echo Shadow's comments about JHP particularly if carrying in an urban environment.
I like the Federal Trophy Bond don't get me wrong but it's particularly suited to hunting or woods situations. I've used it effectively in that application. However, I refrain from carrying it (and wfn hardcast as well) in populated urban situations.
In urban surroundings when carrying a 10mm, I stick with the JHPs ranging from 155gr to 200g...TAC-XP(solid copper), Gold Dots, XTP, V-Crown, Silvertip, Critical Duty, etc. As I learn more, considering 115gr & 100gr xtreme defender line as well.
While in the great outdoors 10mm carry options include - 180gr Trophy Bond, 200gr+ wfn hardcast, 180gr to 200gr Underwood XTP & 155gr. Buffalo Bore TAC-XP
Shadow hit it..
I carry a couple mags with me due to working in bad urban environment but living in country..Carry Silvertips for regular but keep a mag of 200xtp or 180 trophy bonded incase of an animal encounter-see dear strike
Thanks for all the comments.
Currently I am packing 200gr XTP loaded hot. It's velocity envelope is much lower than the 180gr XTP so the idea is it'll expand more reliably, and in tests it penetrates well but doesn't overpenetrate.
I've fired some of the Hi-Tek coated 220gr hardcast and they appear to shoot well out of my Glock although I want to test a few more boxes. Those would probably be my load for hogs or if I went somewhere where brown bears were a concern.
Quote from: Bluebird5000 on February 19 2019 12:42:02 PM MST
Thanks for all the comments.
Currently I am packing 200gr XTP loaded hot. It's velocity envelope is much lower than the 180gr XTP so the idea is it'll expand more reliably, and in tests it penetrates well but doesn't overpenetrate.
I've fired some of the Hi-Tek coated 220gr hardcast and they appear to shoot well out of my Glock although I want to test a few more boxes. Those would probably be my load for hogs or if I went somewhere where brown bears were a concern.
Hard cast is definitely the way to go if brown bears are a possibility.
Don't underestimate your hot 200gr XTP loads for hogs. They'll definitely do the trick if you put the bullet where it needs to go. Which of course is necessary with 10mm hardcast or any other caliber for that matter.
Quote from: Rojo27 on February 19 2019 06:11:10 PM MST
Hard cast is definitely the way to go if brown bears are a possibility.
Don't underestimate your hot 200gr XTP loads for jogs. They'll definitely do the trick if you put the bullet where it needs to go. Which of course is necessary with 10mm hardcast or any other caliber for that matter.
Yeah I read some of the other threads and I'm still not sure if I'll use the XTP or hardcast for hogs or black bear. Seems people use both. They say the hardcast is better for breaking bones at any angle and the XTP makes a bigger hole through the heart/lungs. It's fun to decide which bullet to use. Ill probably just use my 200gr XTP and if a 400lb hogzilla comes within range of my blind, I will only take a shot if it gives me a side shot :)
Thankfully I've never had to shoot a person. But I have shot, or seen shot, animals with 9mm, 40SW, 10mm, 41Mag, 44Mag, in areas where each are legal. Deer are not people but I believe there are important lessons learned.
9mm and 40SW are profoundly unimpressive on deer. 41Mag and 44Mag are very effective. 10MM seems to trend more towards the Mags. The extra velocity seems to do more surrounding damage and kill differently than the smaller rounds. This is why I like 10mm, as I cant's get the Mag performance in a reasonable semi auto platform.
For carry ammo I typically use 155-180gr. I value the effect of the velocity and feel the round has enough penetration to not need to run 200s. I do carry 200s in the field.
My gun is loaded with Underwood's 165 Gold Dots, which in their testing, show consistent 13"-14" penetration. My backup mag has Underwood's 180 Gold Dots, and the mag in the door pocket of the car has Underwood's 200 XTPs.